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A Chinese Monarch/Marathon UHV Walkthrough

Discussion in 'Gameplay Guides' started by Hickman888, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Chieftain

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    A Chinese UHV game, assuming that you start from 3000 BC, is the lengthiest game to be found in DoC. It encompasses almost 4,000 years of history, and, assuming you're a madman and you play on Marathon speed like me, can last over 900 turns (depending on how long you take to complete the last goal).

    Like my Greek walkthrough, I'm writing this little guide because it took me several tries to get it right, and I thought this might help anyone else out who maybe was too intimidated to play through as China.

    The first half of a Chinese game is fairly high energy, rushing around making sure that all of your ducks in a row. The second half of a Chinese game is much more calm, going along at cruise control where, while your hands are still on the wheel, the heavy lifting has already been done.

    We begin the game with an archer, a militia, and a settler. I settle my capital one tile south from the start, so that it is situated on the river (I'll explain why later), and send my militia down to northern Indochina, and pickup the goody hut that spawns there. I do not build ancestor shrines, because Confucianism will spread to my cities before I research Divination, and thus my temples (and production) will be wasted.

    There are several technologies that need researching here in the immediate future: We need Alloys/Bloomery in order to chop all of these forests and train units to fight barbarians, we need Calendar in order to build plantations on the luxury resources to keep our cities happy, Riding so that we can train horsemen to fight barbarians, and Masonry, to build our Great Wall. I've read on some old threads that other people like to immediately tech for Calendar... Not me. In fact, you might be shocked to hear that it was my last priority, of the above technologies.

    My early game strategy goes like this:
    • Tech Masonry/Ceremony, adopt Slavery/Monarchy.
    • Tech Property/Writing, train several workers, settle the second city three tiles to the east, and build a library.
      Spoiler Ancient China :
      20191106114158_1.jpg
    • Tech Alloys/Bloomery, harvest the rice beside the capital,build the Dujiangyan wonder in the capital (+1 food on all river tiles), and mine the iron two tiles to the north of the capital. Chop forests and build mines/cottages in your capital. I run a statesman and aim to birth a Great Statesman in the capital. After that, I aim for a Great Scientist. (For bulbing reasons)
    • Tech Riding/Construction, and settle the next three cities: One to the northeast of the stone resource, one to the northeast of the horse resource, and one to the north of the pig resource. The two northern cities are settled early so that they have time to expand their borders with a monument, to maximize the effect of the Great Wall.

    Now in my games, I frequently made use of a strategy that would fill up my treasury nicely. In vanilla Civ 4, whenever a wonder you are constructing in one of your cities is built elsewhere, it will return you 1 gold for every invested hammer. In DoC, this is nerfed to only provide 1 gold for every two invested hammers. However, wonders that have "Double production with X resource" will give you twice the amount of hammers, allowing you to essentially achieve 1 gold = 1 hammer parity! It is the most efficient method of obtaining gold in Civilization 4.

    Therefore, after I quarried my stone and Confucianism spread from my capital to my 2nd largest city, I began constructing the Great Wall. Furthermore, I chopped several of the forests surrounding the city, to provide even more production (which was doubled from the stone).
    Spoiler The strategy in action. :
    20191106122037_1.jpg


    Meanwhile, I saw that it would take about 30 turns to construct in my capital. Knowing that the first barbarian horsemen horde spawns in turn 400, I canceled production in my 2nd city, and began constructing it in my capital on turn 370. As I'm doing this, my two cities to the north have been constructing monuments, to expand their borders as much as possible, prior to the Wall's completion. (The Wall will only hurt barbarian units and reduce enemy movement within the actual representation of the Wall on the map, even if your borders expand later.) By the time the first horde invades me, I am well set. I've got several horsemen to deal with them, I got a couple of swordsmen in my capital, a treasury that is nice and full, and a big, beautiful, border wall.
    Spoiler Good situation :

    20191106124750_1.jpg

    Horsemen are perfect defenders of the north, as they can be promoted to deal with light calvary units, and rush from city to city, depending on where the barbarians spawn. Meet the barbarian horse archers in your city, on a hill, or a forest, just not on open ground. That is their advantage.

    Barbarian swordsmen from Tibet to the west will periodically spawn as well, starting about turn 383. Swordsmen with the shock promotion are your best bet.

    I continue improving the land and begin training an army: 6-8 swordsmen, and 2 catapults will do nicely. Korea spawns in, and settles Pyongyang in turn 444, and you should try to capture it as soon as possible. I choose not to eliminate Korea, because they are a good tech trading partner to have as a vassal. Additionally, if I besiege their capital after taking Pyongyang, they will give me a technology in addition to their capitulation.
    Spoiler Reducing Korea down to one defender persuaded him to give me Seafaring. :

    20191106133415_1.jpg

    I adopt Clergy/Merchant Trade/Citizenship to help me get my infrastructure around my empire up and running, because many of my cities do not have the best production. Settling two more cities in south China expands my total to 8 cities. Spread Confucianism/Taoism to all of your cities, and build the temples in all of your cities. I construct the cathedrals of my state religion in the cities that need the extra happiness the most, and I need to make sure that all 4 cathedrals are done by 650. (I may or may not have miscalculated and constructed my last cathedral a turn too late...but other than my one little usage of Worldbuilder, I consider this a solid game :lol:)

    Depending on what the rest of the world looks like at the time, you may or may not have some serious competition for your tech goals. In 4 of my attempted Chinese playthroughs, I was beat out to Compass by the Persians twice, the Byzantines once, and the Vikings once, all around turn 600! You may want to consider having a scout meeting the other civilizations, and seeing where they are technologically. Also, rush Compass. For whatever reason, the AI loves that technology.

    Once I began bulbing for technologies, however, I didn't have any problem getting my technologies first. I use my Great Statesman to dual bulb Politics and Law, and the Great Scientist to dual bulb Scholarship and Alchemy. After Compass, I head for Paper.

    With the Machinery technology, I can now build the Grand Canal wonder, which provides an extra two commerce on all river tiles of that city. I construct it in the capital, steal the tiles from the neighboring cities, and adopt Regulated Trade, which provides +50% commerce in the capital...
    Spoiler Great Capital of Xi'an :

    20191106160009_1.jpg


    After Paper, beeline Gunpowder (the AI's obsession with this technology makes a bit more sense). And finally, after Gunpowder, pickup Printing, the last technology for the second goal! At this point in the game, we are more or less golden (pun unintended) and just have to focus on getting the final golden ages. I adopt Monasticism/Meritocracy, and then Isolationism later on.

    There is, of course, one more obstacle in the way...

    Mongolia.

    They spawn on turn 713, and come at our great civilization with nearly 20 Keshiks/Mangudais, and 8 bombards. Whenever their army approaches an enemy city, that city descends into unrest, rendering defenses useless. Furthermore, their Keshiks and Bombards inflict collateral damage whenever they attack. Sitting and defending in your city is not the play.

    To deal with Mongolia, after I research Gunpowder, I begin training 25-30 firelancers. These bad boys, when twice promoted, not only have a 65% chance of defeating a Keshik on a hill, they also inflict collateral damage! Whenever Genghis Khan invades China, and heads right for Beijing, he is met with a nasty surprise...
    Spoiler Have you ever seen Mulan? :

    20191107000804_1.jpg

    His army is almost completely annihilated. He takes Shenyang and Pyongyang for a few turns, but I take them back with ease. I march over and burn his capital to the ground, take a few slaves, and ask for peace.
    Spoiler Go home G.K. :

    20191107003042_1.jpg


    The boss battle of the barbarians is won. I still have a massive army after the war, so after I disband several firelancers to save gold, I opt to invade the Khmer and vassalize them, because why not. I construct the Porcelain Power, adopt Isolationism, and construct the Forbidden Palace. Other than two brief wars where the Japanese and then the Mughals declared war on me, the next few centuries were uneventful, and consisted primarily of ending my turn and micromanaging my specialists to insure the correct great person would be born. I had one too many Great Merchants birthed in my empire, but other than that, I still managed to be done with my fourth and final golden age in 1687, with over a hundred turns to spare.

    Spoiler I just love the Rhye's and Fall guitar solo that plays after you achieve your victory. :

    20191107030731_1.jpg
    20191107031020_1.jpg


    General Tips for China:
    • At least one Great Person bulbing is necessary to get ahead in the tech race to Compass, but two might not be necessary. It depends on how the other AI's are doing. Scout them out, and use espionage to spy on their research. I opted to bulb with 2 great people, because I'd rather be safe than sorry.
    • Don't be afraid to sell/buy technologies from other civilizations, especially your vassals. Just make sure they are not selling them access to beat you in the tech race.
    • Constantly check the foreign advisor screen to see who has extra gold per turn to trade away...China has lots of resources, don't forget to sell some of them for extra gold!
    • I made the mistake of beelining for the Vassalage civic in a couple of my games, to help me afford all of my units. Don't do it. You will lose the race for compass, and it will only save you about 10-15 gold per turn.
    • Micromanage your population centers, to make sure you are assigning the specialists that you need for your next golden age. One golden age is on the house, provided after you achieve your first two goals, but the other three are on you! You need 2, 3, and then 4 different great people types to start your golden ages.
    • A barbarian warrior wave will sometime happen around turn 300. Don't be afraid to take archers out of your cities to defend your improvements, the unhappiness is not a big deal.
    • Constantly be checking the financial advisor, and keep an eye on how much gold your units are costing you. If you don't have a plan for some of those units, delete them. They are costing precious gold just to sit around.
    • If you extend your golden age while still in the middle of a golden age, it appears it does count for two different golden ages for the purpose of the victory condition. Furthermore, they last 24 turns (marathon speed...), and they do not count until the age has ended.
    • Confucianism was founded around turn 320ish, and Taoism around 470ish.
    • Barbarian Keshiks with 3 movements (2 inside the Great Wall) begin spawning around turn 630. Cho-Ku-Nu's and Firelancers are your best bet.

    I wouldn't really choose to change anything about China, their victory is challenging but doable if you know what you're doing, which is how it should be IMO. The only nitpick I have is that Beijing deserves a bit more love. Beijing today is China's second largest city, and Wikipedia described Beijing as the largest city in the world, from roughly 1500AD-1700AD. I wish that resources could be planted there around 1500, to help simulate it's growth of importance, and perhaps to even convince the human player to construct his capital there. (I saw no need to.)

    China was fun; I hope some of you try them out as well. Let me know what you guys think, thanks. ;)
     
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  2. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Chieftain

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    Hello all.

    After reading another thread discussing the challenges in achieving a Chinese victory, I heard the idea of using Despostism from user Mxzs. Now to be honest, I've never been big on whipping in Civ 4. I never explored the mechanic that well, and I was always hesitant of the idea of sacrificing population for production. In my mind, I saw it as sacrificing future production for present consumption. In other words, having a high time preference.

    If you are like me and have those same fears, I am here to tell you, after yet another historical game with China, this time using Despotism and cracking the whip often, that those fears are unfounded (if you use whipping correctly, that is). Think of it like this: You are constructing a a market in one of your cities. It will take 20 turns to produce with hammers, or you can choose to whip it instantly, losing 3 population if you do. If you choose to whip the market out, your city, with the help of granaries/aqueducts/China's ability, will grow to its original size within 10 turns, and you will be able to run merchants in the city far sooner than you otherwise would've been able to, leading to an additional 80 gold or so that you otherwise would've missed out on. However, if you chose to construct the market with hammers, your city has only managed to grow an additional population point in those 20 turns, and he is now working some relatively worthless ocean tile, only providing you a food and 2 commerce a turn. This game is all about opportunity costs.

    If you are new to whipping (sacrificing population for production), you may want to read into it a bit, like I did. But as for my new strategy with China, the short of it is this:

    • 1.) Beeline Writing (adopting despotism, slavery, and deification in the opening stages).
    • 2.) Plant 2-3 additional cities (the sooner the better), whipping out Taixues as you go.
    • 3.) Run scientists in your cities when they don't have anything meaningful to spend production on, and have your Great Scientist(s) dual-bulb (micromanage the cities!).
    • 4.) Capture Pyongyang, or find a comfortable spot for an 8th Chinese city.
    • 5.) Whip temples, markets, cathedrals where you want them...
    • 6.) ...And then China shifts gears into a specialist economy, adopting Monarchy (more :)=higher population), Monasticism (increased :gp:), and Meritocracy (more :commerce: from specialists, among other things), and Regulated Trade (My preference for China).

    Following this strategy of using Despotism for the first two historical goals of China, I was actually much more wealthy and much more advanced than I was in my previous games, where I had relied on Monarchy from the start. Several of China's cities have high population counts, but relatively poor production. However, with the whip, we can transform a lot of that surplus population (that isn't working valuable tiles) into hammers, to help us construct our markets, libraries, temples, etc. much faster. Furthermore, China's ability, cities keep 25% of their food bar after growth, coupled with granaries and eventually aqueducts, will let your cities maintain 75% of their food after growing! This is a huge asset for letting your cities quickly recover from being whipped, and your cities will be back to their prior population count in a short number of turns! All of this, on top of the high amount of luxury resources in China, will keep your people fairly happy, even as you are working them to death. (Civilization is making me sound like a madman.) In fact, you will have to exercise restraint from cracking the whip too much... For every time that you whip population, it adds another :mad: for 10/15/30 turns, on top of the :mad: that you have already accrued from cracking the whip. For one example, here on Marathon speed, in my city of Hangzhou, I got my :mad: timer to 150 turns before I decided I needed to cool it with the whip a bit.

    It is ultimately your discretion about when and where to crack the whip, but if you are new to it like I was, I highly recommend playing through China with Despotism, and learning the ropes of it here. It is great fun, and the dynamic of whipping has opened up a whole new chapter of strategy for me in Civ 4!
     
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  3. JDPElGrillo

    JDPElGrillo Chieftain

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    Have you tested Republic openings, presumably as a swap from Despotism? I know it seems counter-intuitive given how much land China has access to, but the upside would be that you would need a lot fewer worker turns to get the southern cities and plantation resources up and running, which in turn speeds up the roads and chops/mines for Xi'an and Zhongdu, speeding up wonders and barb defenders. Furthermore, cities like Shanghai and Guangzhou can work their single mine/quarry and build their Miao/Guan first instead of needing the costly Taixue build for specialist slots.

    I haven't fully tested the opening and tech route, but I think it has promise. Republic is just such a strong civic to have access to from such an early date.
     
  4. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Chieftain

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    I have not tested Republic with China, I tend to stick to historically relevant civics when playing a civilization.

    I'm not sure what you mean by needing fewer worker turns to develop the plantations/southern cities if running Republic? I suppose with Republic, you could run a scientist faster than if you had to construct the Taixue, but I still think you would be missing out on the potential benefit of whipping out your Taixues, even considering the few extra turns you'd have with the free scientist in a Republic. China regrows its population so fast, due to high food output and its UA, that any population lost from whipping will quickly be regained, and can thus be staffed as two scientists, plus you'll have the +25% :science: from the Taixue much sooner as well. Maybe Republic could see some use after you research Writing, but before getting Calendar? (Before Calendar, your :) is capped fairly low, and thus whipping too much is not advised)

    If you're looking for an opening, here was my go-to as China: Bee-line Writing (I adopted Despotism, you can try Writing), then research to Alloys. Found a city beside the gold when alloys is researched, and mine the gold. Next, I tech my way to Divination, use a Great Scientist to bulb Calendar/Mathematics, and start laying plantations all over the place (I've pre-chopped many of the forests on the luxury tiles to save time). Next up, Bloomery and Riding, to start training my military for the imminent barbarian attacks. By this time, you should have about 6 cities, and have a pretty good base going forward.
     
  5. JDPElGrillo

    JDPElGrillo Chieftain

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    Fewer worker turns are needed because you only need to improve the resource tiles for those cities (and one mine for Shanghai/Hangzhou so it can get anything at all built), but you don't need to spend any turns on non-resource farms or cottages. I usually favor a Monarchy/Vassalage/Manorialism approach with large city sizes and lots of riverside 3/1/2 farms, but it always felt a bit clunky needing large garrisons and increasing civic expenses due to larger population, and my tech rate always felt worse than I'd like it to be. I'm hypothesizing a Republic and eventual Citizenship alternative where you get the Miaos/Guans built early, then enjoy the discounts for the other infrastructure before swapping out, back to Vassalage and then Meritocracy.

    I'm a bit intrigued about your opening, are you talking about the Gold to the southwest near the border with India? That's eye-opening to me, I normally stay far away from that area because the barb War Elephant spawns every few dozen turns seem really obnoxious to deal with, and I notice that they go bother India instead if I leave that area unsettled. How do you deal with those WEs, spears behind walls? I'll have to give it a try.
     
  6. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    In my experience a Spearman is usually sufficient to deal with barb Elephants in the south of China. A wall helps; for insurance, a second unit.
     
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  7. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Chieftain

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    Okay, I see what you're saying. Yes, that was one of my problems with running Monarchy in the early/mid game as well: I needed plenty of units in my largest cities in order to keep them happy, and all of those extra units are such a drain on upkeep. I also enjoy running Citizenship in the Classical era, for the same reasons you said, and I am also fairly certain that its production bonus extends to whipping those buildings as well. Later on, I like to run Vassalage as I am training up my 25-30 unit army to deal with Genghis Khan, to help deal with that extra upkeep load... After he is dealt with, I'll switch over to Meritocracy, and settle in my Great Person economy.

    Yes, the tile 1E of the gold is a great spot! Next to the only gold resource in the region, and within range of three different plantations and a rice. The War Elephants are annoying, yes, but if you expand down there early enough, its borders will have grown a decent amount by the time you build the Great Wall. If you station just a couple of spearmen in the city, and build it some walls, the Elephant will not only be wounded from the Great Wall, but he will also be attacking your walled city across a river. He may pillage an improvement or two, but every turn he spends not attacking a unit is another turn he is getting hurt from the Great Wall. IMO, the early gold resource is too good to pass up, especially for my whip-happy self.
    Spoiler A bit towards the end of the game, but showcasing the potential of Kunming. :

    20200106224501_1.jpg



    In my experience playing with China, my overall strength as jumped considerably when I started running Despotism for the first two goals, instead of Monarchy. I've played through several Chinese games in the last month or two, so I am a bit too burnt out with them at the moment to rush into playing another game with them.. :lol: But if you end up trying it out, let me know! I'd be interested to know how it fares, for my next China game!
     

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  8. JDPElGrillo

    JDPElGrillo Chieftain

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    I played a test game through turn 205 (Monarch/Standard, so around 850 BC) and was overall quite pleased with the opening. I went into Despotism to whip out one round of workers while teching Writing, then let the cities grow back to whip the Taixue ASAP in all 3 cities, at which point I swapped into Republic and never looked back. I put off Currency and Law a bit later than I think I should've in hindsight, generating a low-odds Great Statesman for Contract+Law would've been amazing, but oh well. I ended up waiting until Redistribution to build Granaries and waiting until Citizenship for the non-core-Taixue boosted buildings, and my cities had plenty of build so it ended up being fine, if not ideal. The biggest advantage over my old pop/farms approach was, as expected, a much healthier tech rate. One unexpected but welcome development is that with fewer worker turns to spare, I found myself leaving a lot of the forests in the core unchopped, which, combined with lower city sizes overall, meant I didn't have the health issues I used to. I got access to Lumbermills and Watermills in the last dozen or so turns and there was a very smooth transition between my workers finishing up roads and mines up north and them filling in the mills everywhere else. I have UHV1 very well in hand, but got greedy and settled all of my Great Scientists instead of bulbing at least one, so I lost UHV2 to an unknown civ around 700 BC, so UHV is off the table. That feels earlier than expected from the last couple of China games I played, but I definitely could have done more to secure them. Oh well.

    That said, I think I'm in a commanding position and should have plenty of time to stop the Mongols.




    I ended up with a very nice Great Wall thanks to the whipped Taixue in Zhongdu expanding borders northward. I finished it after the first 3 waves of horse archers, which claimed some archers' lives but were otherwise harmless.

    Spoiler Cities :


    I just finished Grand Canal, which means I should probably reassign some tiles and grow the capital all the way to the happy cap, health be damned. The Republic +1f bonus really shines here with such a large food surplus and the China regrowth bonus, and with all the multipliers every population point is really valuable to the economy. It's worth saying again, in this current tile arrangement Republic is costing one tile's 1F, but generating 8F from hired specialists, netting the equivalent of a premium food resource.

    Luoyang spent most of its time either hogging 3-4 food resources and growing/pumping settlers/workers, or giving them to Xian and Beijing and Shanghai while stagnating on one food resource and hiring a bunch of specialists. Super solid city, as always.

    Early game production center and responsible for the early chariots (notice the defogged northern expedition path). I typically like to settle all my Great Generals here and pump military. Meritocracy, Conquest, and Theocracy will eventually combine to produce some really powerful Lancers, Bombards, and Firelancers for anti-Mongol duties. I also like this site on the coast for later naval production purposes, though the main benefit is being able to immediately improve the Horse pasture.

    I missed the memo on where to settle the Gold city so I ended up 1N instead of 1E, but I'm impressed by it nonetheless. You were right, the early happiness is a huge help, and now it's going to serve as an effective military pump for the next era or so. As Mxzs mentioned, two Spears on standby were enough to attack out of the city whenever a WE moved onto my Gold. I really didn't want to have to send workers back down to rebuild that rainforest mine if it gets pillaged. 12 worker turns, yikes. The swords and horse currently in the city are retired Tibetan border guards, now that the civ has spawned in.

    Shanghai is one of the city sites that benefits a lot from Republic, during its production poor start it simply took the Pigs and Deer, grew to size 5, then gave them back and used its own Rice to support specialists.

    Captured by swords from Zhongdu the turn after it spawned (after it ran its 2 chariots into my waiting fortified archers on the Horse). This city definitely does suffer from Republic, it won't have quite enough food to support all of its excellent production tiles until the Corn spawns in later on, because I can't just farm plains for it to grow onto.

    Another production-focused city, even more so once my workers get back here to finish watermilling it. Even this city, which isn't really making use of that many specialists and has 3 tiles hit by the Republic penalty, is only -1F down overall.

    Fortress city, serves its purpose and even ended up as the Taoist holy city. I do wish it were possible to keep the Oasis cottage from getting pillaged, but it just hasn't been worth the trouble. With CKN just starting to enter mass production, I like leaving my highly promoted archers fortified and undefended, putting in one CKN at each city to fortify just in case, and leaving the rest to play zone defense in the hills in front of Zhongdu. With C1 and the anti-Light Cavalry promotion they get 98+% attacking into rough terrain, which honestly feels better than waiting for the barbs to pillage my mines/lumbermills.

    This city is also much better in Republic, it let me delay the Harbor for a Miao instead, and 2/0/2 water tiles are so underwhelming that working the 1-of specialists feels like a much better use of its citizens.



    Throughout the civ, Republic costs 10F from slightly weaker tiles, not including some commerce plantations that aren't worth working as a result, but is adding 30F from specialists. The opportunity costs are mostly in the form of slightly awkward civic combinations, since there's no reason to stay in Citizenship just to cash-rush units when Vassalage gives so much output, and I'm still able to run a favorable/contemporary set of Civics (for now, at least).

    EDIT: I ended up not emphasizing Gunpowder as highly due to failing UHV2 and so ended up fighting the Mongol stack with Lancers, CKN, and a couple of random collateral longbows and trebs. This is where the combination of Meritocracy and xp sources really comes in handy, I was able to steadily build 9xp Lancers from Beijing (barracks + stables + Conquest civic + 2 settled Great Generals, which ends up being 11xp, but this means I can build 3-promo Firelancers as well), which is enough to take C2 + Skirmish for 90% odds against full-health Keshiks. CKNs do much worse, but C2/Skirmish gets them to 80% against 5hp Keshiks. I was a bit fortunate in that the AI split off some of its one-movers, but I was still able to handily defeat the main Keshik stack with acceptable losses on my side.

     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  9. JDPElGrillo

    JDPElGrillo Chieftain

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    I continued teching to Sociology for Egalitarianism's extra 2 beakers per specialist, and researched it on turn 310. Feel free to guess how much output that Civic yielded (over Manorialism, which was great for its time but is pretty badly outdone at this point).

    Spoiler Turn 310 demos :



    Spoiler Turn 311 demos :


    A gain of roughly 400 GNP, an almost 50% increase. Not bad!

    Also, I find it hilarious that this is the default tile assignment the governor opted for. Yum, a single rice tile feeding 8 specialists (there's also one free specialist from Isolationism, which outputs a free food from Republic). I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but a major part of Republic's later strength comes from the free food generated by free specialists and settled great people. It's hard to overstate how strong this kind of effect is, just think about how often we spend hammers on things like a Harbor or a health bonus building to effectively gain 1F.


    Onward to Labour Unions!

    EDIT: I ended up diverting from attempting a science victory around turn 400, as the turns were getting long and I felt pretty frustrated by how expensive research was going to be for me, with both the Chinese research modifier and the Tech Spread modifier really hurting on that front. However, I had been tech leader and was dominant in the demographics with a massive production base (my settled GG city was 1-turning 22xp ships, and incidentally I think I completely broke the Thai AI by parking 2 C5 Privateers by them, at which point their two cities built nothing but caravels that they proceeded to ineffectively throw at them), so it was just a matter of finding a win condition.

    After realizing that I hadn't quite planned ahead well enough for a cultural victory, I just turned research off, built a massive cutting-edge army of dragoons/infantry/artillery/cruisers, finally swapped out of Republic/Isolationism for the more stable Democracy/Nationhood, emphasized expansion stability by starving down all my non-core cities (which incidentally combined with running the culture slider meant a lot of happiness stability) and using upgraded workers to plant hamlets everywhere in my core, and won a Domination victory around turn 460 by capitulating Russia (they were strangely eager to capitulate, I only took two of their eastern Siberian cities), peace vassaling Japan, planting a bunch of filler Siberian cities, conquering/settling mostly-collapsed southeast Asia, the middle East, and Africa, which was just enough for land area. I then sacked some more European cities get enough population. A pretty tedious mess to play through as civ endgames tend to be, but it largely went off without a hitch once I realized I had more than enough dragoons to just throw them at rifles at 60% odds. I was at war with the US and Canada, but they were also at war with a Mexico that I had been propping up in the hopes of peace vassaling, and seemed unable to put together a big intercontinental stack. I sank a bunch of their ships with cruisers but otherwise left North America alone.

    Fun game, even with the endgame grind, and definitely enough to impress me with the strength of a Republic opening. It turns out that the excess land you have as China isn't really a reason not to run it, and the excess food you have is a great reason to run it. The excellent tech rate through the midgame is more than enough to carry you to the mill/workshop Civics, at which point you have more than enough hammers to win Domination, as long as you take care not to collapse, which you have plenty of tools to do, if you don't mind playing ahistorically and rather brutally with your civ's people. Hey, if the mechanics say they're ecstatic about their Arenas and Cinemas while millions die around them from starvation, who am I to say otherwise?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
    Hickman888 likes this.

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