A Civ5 Guide for the Civ4 Veteran *Updated 9/24*

[Paeanblack]

You're comparing the elephants to chariots and saying elephants are better because of certain terrain. While certainly true, that's not comparing the units fairly. Which terrain you will you have around your empire is dependent on map settings and luck, if you play with the elephants with the mindset of hills and marshes, with they still live up to your expectations if you start on plains or grassland? Or even if you have rough terrain, what if you build a road to your enemy? Then the higher movement speed of chariots will really be pronounced.

I am assuming a random assortment of terrain across a map. In a flat race, a chariot archer moves 4 tiles for the elephant's 3. Once rough terrain is encountered, the elephant moves 2 tiles for the chariot's 1.

At least in the maps I've encountered, there simply isn't enough open ground for the chariot to move faster than the elephant. It takea 8 tiles of chariot advantage to make up for 2 tiles for elephant advantage. In practice, the elephant is the faster cross-country mover. It is also the more flexible mover. It can climb a hill/enter a forest, see a spearman on the other side, and retreat on the same turn. If a chariot tries the same thing, it dies.

Raw movement points don't tell the whole story. The third MP is much more valuable than the fourth. Dropping the rough terrain penalty more than makes up for the drop from 4MP to 3MP.

 

[mrt144]

This is just wrong. The fact that some civs are less powerful than others in certain situations is imposed by the game rules. The abilities of the different Civilizations are a fundamental aspect of the game.

But they are mutable and often are in the pursuit of a more well rounded gameplay experience. Your individual preference is moot.

 

[DaviddesJ]

But they are mutable and often are in the pursuit of a more well rounded gameplay experience. Your individual preference is moot.

Those words don't mean what you think they mean. The civs are not mutable, they have fixed abilities that don't change.

But I have been arguing all along for making choices to improve the game experience, in particular, choosing less favorable civs to make the game more balanced. It's others who are arguing against that.

 

[Vordeo]

Those words don't mean what you think they mean. The civs are not mutable, they have fixed abilities that don't change.

The strength of those abilities, however, is mutable based on the environment.

But I have been arguing all along for making choices to improve the game experience, in particular, choosing less favorable civs to make the game more balanced. It's others who are arguing against that.

No, you've been arguing against balancing civ strengths. Whether that improves the game experience is something that is certainly up for debate.

That said, this discussion has been taking this (otherwise excellent) thread off topic, would suggest starting a new topic if you really want to discuss this,

 

[DaviddesJ]

That said, this discussion has been taking this (otherwise excellent) thread off topic, would suggest starting a new topic if you really want to discuss this,

It's always amazing to me how many people post to add their two cents and then suggest that other people stop posting. Just not posting is a much easier way to end the discussion.

 

[Vordeo]

It's always amazing to me how many people post to add their two cents and then suggest that other people stop posting. Just not posting is a much easier way to end the discussion.

I'd be more than happy to discuss this topic with you at length, it's just that this isn't exactly the right place for it.

I'm not even suggesting you stop posting on this; I'm suggesting you start a thread elsewhere so we can discuss this without derailing this thread.

Edit: Also, was there really any need for the snark?

 

[generalwar]

Great article, thanks, I really need smth about city specialization. But, I think that you wrote somewhere that puppet cities don't raise your culture cap for policies. That's wrong. I'm pretty sure that they raise it. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll check it out,but...

 

[Trickster7135]

Great article, thanks, I really need smth about city specialization. But, I think that you wrote somewhere that puppet cities don't raise your culture cap for policies. That's wrong. I'm pretty sure that they raise it. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll check it out,but...

I'm 100% sure puppet states don't raise culture cap, it's something I've verified with my own experience.

 

[Roxlimn]

Trickster7135:

Just played India with War Elephants. Better ranged power, better defense, better movement. A vastly better unit overall.

Terrain doesn't matter. Most terrain will be a combination of several types, and Elephants can use hilly and forested terrain to advantage against enemy units.

Also tried Camel Archers. They are really, really, really good.

 

[da_Vinci]

I'm 100% sure puppet states don't raise culture cap, it's something I've verified with my own experience.

Puppets don't raise the culture thresholds ... and IIRC the game tells you as much (or at least strongly implies it) in the window giving your the choice of annex or puppet, if you mouse over the choices. They also don't give you as much unhappiness as annexations, although it may be just the occupied city extra unhappy that you save, not the pop count unhappy.

dV

 

[alcaras]

Happiness wise, are puppets equal to self-built cities?

I know they don't raise the culture cap, whereas self-built cities do (making it an advantage to puppet your enemies' cities rather than bother building your own, at least past 3 cities).

 

[Trickster7135]

Happiness wise, are puppets equal to self-built cities?

I know they don't raise the culture cap, whereas self-built cities do (making it an advantage to puppet your enemies' cities rather than bother building your own, at least past 3 cities).

I'm pretty sure they have the same unhappiness as regular cities, but I'm not 100%. I'm partial to razing cities and letting barbarian reclaim the land when I'm going cultural though.

 

[Vordeo]

I'm pretty sure they have the same unhappiness as regular cities, but I'm not 100%. I'm partial to razing cities and letting barbarian reclaim the land when I'm going cultural though.

I try not to raze, I get the feeling it pisses off other civs, though I'm not sure about that.

Also, if the city can support itself, puppets can at least contribute culture once they build monuments/temples, and those are pretty early in the build tree.

 

[Trickster7135]

I try not to raze, I get the feeling it pisses off other civs, though I'm not sure about that.

Also, if the city can support itself, puppets can at least contribute culture once they build monuments/temples, and those are pretty early in the build tree.

Nope, razing doesn't have any negative consequences on relations.

And the reason I don't puppet is I like to not have any clashing borders with other civs, so I'm usually left alone while they fight each other. Then I use my military to tactically weaken the biggest civ while he's fighting elsewhere, and quickly retreat to home after a few razes. They almost never pursue through a forest of barbarians and rough terrain.

 

[Vordeo]

Nope, razing doesn't have any negative consequences on relations.

Confirmed? In a few games I've played, the razing I've done is pretty much the only reason I can think of for other civs to suddenly be hostile towards me.

Could be just random AI I suppose.

And the reason I don't puppet is I like to not have any clashing borders with other civs, so I'm usually left alone while they fight each other. Then I use my military to tactically weaken the biggest civ while he's fighting elsewhere, and quickly retreat to home after a few razes. They almost never pursue through a forest of barbarians and rough terrain.

Good point

 

[Trickster7135]

Confirmed? In a few games I've played, the razing I've done is pretty much the only reason I can think of for other civs to suddenly be hostile towards me.

Could be just random AI I suppose.

Well I can't confirm it, because it isn't something mentioned at all in the Manual, Civelopedia, or the advisers. I know the AI frowns upon conquering cities at all, but they usually overlook it unless its a much weaker civ or you outright killed a civ. Picking a few border cities from the big dog almost never makes the AI angry, not even the guy you attacked once you sign a peace treaty.

 

[Crow, of Earth]

Thank you for this guide!

I had no clue how many tiles were workable, so I was just settling wherever till now.
Also, the information on production enhancing buildings and on fresh water buildings is especially very useful for me.

 

[JYG]

Thanks for taking the time to write this!

I noticed however that the Wonders list is missing:

The Forbidden Palace (Nice with a big empire and great for India - IMHO).

Will there be an update regarding the promotions for the other unit types?

 

[Trickster7135]

Thanks for taking the time to write this!

I noticed however that the Wonders list is missing:

The Forbidden Palace (Nice with a big empire and great for India - IMHO).

Will there be an update regarding the promotions for the other unit types?

The Forbidden Palace is a national wonder, so every civ can build it. I can include a second section for national wonders, but they're pretty basic and don't require rushing to be able to build them.

And the other promotion guides will come in time, I've been trying to play non-melee units to get a better feel of them.

Thank you for input!

 

[Pyt15]

This is indeed an excellent guide, which offers many good insights. Im looking forward to the subsequent part - hope there are going to be some.

Keep up the good work,