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A Deity Strategy for Eleanor of Aquitaine

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by BarbarianHunter, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    Edit: It is my contention that this strategy will not work as presented due to the June 2019 "Cav Nerf." I have not, however, put that to the test with infantry/anti-cav. Dated 11-25-19

    I have been looking forward to trying Eleanor of Aquitaine and after a few “ice breaker” games to acclimate to the Gathering Storm mechanics, I did just that. I had planned to warmonger allot less and see how the Court of Love insta-flip could be leveraged in conjunction with cultural zealotry. The motto here being, when in doubt build a theatre square. When you think you may have too many theatre squares, build another! This is possible with GS due to a x3 promoted Pingala (more culture and science equal to the city’s population) and the higher propensity for maps to present +3 or higher campus adjacency bonuses.


    Now that we have that out of the way, let’s examine the strategy in broad terms (discussing the game I played in any great detail is a fool’s errand as your games will surely vary based on the myriad of differences when the world is created).

    Hybrid Warmongering
    I began the game intending to work through a by-and-large peaceful strategy. This didn’t work as well as I had planned/hoped; However, while I was playing I realized I don’t think that’s the way Eleanor is meant to be played. I’ll will spare you the details of the how and why in my game and give you a summary report. I was warring with the nearest civ, managed to take 2 cities, made peace, then around mid game declared a Protectorate War against a civ hell bent on taking a city state I had dropped 6 of my 9 envoys into. I eliminated the offending civ and decided to sit back and give peace a chance.


    Some time passed, the land was both peaceful and prosperous. Joy and Love was commonplace throughout the sprawling empire in large part due to the colosseum and access to 3 continents. We concentrated on and built many theatre squares as planned.

    Then Pericles took a city, an option was presented to me to sponsor a vote for an emergency at a special session of the World Congress. I spent the 30 diplomatic favor to call an emergency. It passed. The war began.

    Pericles was the perfect target: His theatre squares were both a thorn in my side (competition for for great people) as well as areas to place my great works as I moved deeper into his territory.

    Pericles had field cannons (so did I). Pericles had Pike & Shot (I had Cuirassier’s and Cavalry corps). Usually I like to war a tech level higher than my AI adversaries and that would mean tanks. With the Court of Love, however, you don’t need to take out the whole civ via warring. You just need to take out key cities. This exposes your units @ a technological parity with the enemy to less battles and necessarily less chances to be eliminated. The closer I am in tech to an adversary, the more my units tend to get beat up while accomplishing their task. So, with this in mind, you know you’ll have to rest and heal before proceeding against the next city garrisoned by say, a field cannon and renaissance walls. The difference with Eleanor is, while you rest your core army for the next advance a city or two can/will insta-flip to your cause! No need to engage the enemy. No need to heal. No need to risk elimination. In fact, the newly acquired city’s renaissance walls can immediately begin to fire on enemy troops as well! A cultural zealotry with Eleanor not only gets you corps and armies, making earlier units more effective for longer, but also the great works necessary for intra-flipping cities with the COL!

    With the gap units and Eleanor’s COL ability, I realized that I didn’t really need to research tanks per se, and could completely skip helicopters, and modern armor. This freed up some beakers for the Buttress tech (dams) and economics (gold) as well as a faster road to flight & computers (tourism) and robotics (GDR’s, should they become necessary).

    In practice this worked better than I would have imagined. You just need a few heavily promoted corps/armies of cuirassier/cavalry to take out key cities to set off an insta-flip cascade. I did lose a 4-promotion cavalry corps with the escort promotion, but that was only because I was brazen. Take a look at this screen shot. I took 4 cities by conquest (green) and insta-flipped another 11 (red) from Pericles.
    Spoiler :
    1.jpg

    Once I started insta-flipping I had to see how far I could go and went on to flip this whole area using COL great works, spies, and Indie rock bands.
    Spoiler :
    2.png

    Spoiler :
    3.png

    As you can see Eleanor can assimilate vast swaths of land via the COL insta-flip ability. In fact, I was so successful at insta-flipping with COL, I stymied my ability to win a cultural victory due by eliminating 2 civs (i.e. I couldn’t draw any tourists from a dead civ). That’s why I think Eleanor is best as a hybrid warmonger.


    How did I do it? The strategy itself is fairly straight forward. The focus on theatre squares for great works gets you to the Cultural Hegemony civic and the Hallyu policy card (choose any promotion for your rock bands) relatively quickly. Once a city flips, send Reyna to buy a theatre square (or better yet send her to one city to buy a TS and chop another TS up with magnus in a 2nd city that flips).

    Another bonus with Eleanor is you can keep less troops and get more done with less. That means you need less strategic resources, less gold for upgrades, leaving more production for other matters, can use faith for things other than troops, and have a T2 Intelligence Agency (gold/scandal/steal GW’s) instead of the Grandmaster’s Chapel. Another bonus is you’ll probably look weak the AI, making them more prone to declare surprise wars on you (which will give you the grievances to annex a few key cities to begin your insta-flip loyalty cascade).

    Insta-flipping and Era Score
    Insta-flipping a city grants +2 era score. Eliminating a civ via insta-flipping grants +2 era score for flipping the last city and +5 for eliminating the civ. This combined with your advanced culture per turn (reaching civics 1st, governments, corps, armies, etc…provides era score), invariably leads to another golden age. Being in a golden age gives your base population a x1.5 loyalty modifier, which helps flip more cities, which leads you to another golden age…which allows you to flip more cities...which leads you to another golden age...
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  2. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    Of course... main question is, why bother flipping at all when you could've just taken all the caps and win much earlier? :p

    To me, if it's domination then just finish it with domination. No need to pretend it's a cultural victory. Still--try doing peaceful all game. The ability is still very much powerful enough to flip. Forward settle the AI with a bunch of settlers early game, deploy Amani, and then fill up the slots.
     
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  3. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    It's a different way to play. I probably could have ended the game earlier by declaring a war, sniping key cities then deploying great works. Then again, maybe I wouldn't been able to get as deep because a city's population drops when conquered and the AI will usually have reached the district cap threshold. You can often chop up enough population in a pristine insta-flip city to raise the district cap, then send Reyna and buy a TS, ampitheatre, art museum and broadcast center. If the population drops from conquest and the district cap was already at the limit for the pre-conquest population, you might find yourself in a bit of a spot (i.e. unable to carry on with the insta-flip cascade).

    I did finally tire of waiting on the CV when the timer switched from 15 turns to like 60. I bought 4 GDR's and won like 4 turns later.

    I also like Spain if that tells you anything about the games I most enjoy playing.

    Edit: To answer the 2nd part of your post, I think a civ like Canada might be more suited to a peacemongering strategy. IMO Eleanor is a late blooming hybrid warmonger, much like Spain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  4. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    If you like Spain you'll like the Ottomans even more. They're like Spain on crack.
     
  5. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    I probably will like the Ottomans but am unsure I'll like them as much as Eleanor or Spain. The Ottomans are set up for war and get all kinds of bonuses from +50% production, to no pop loss @ conquer, to +4 loyalty. That says nothing of the the practical implications of successfully warring all game with a siege unit and getting the 4-promotion move and attack rocket artillery army. I think I'll have allot of fun swarming said siege units and infantry with the unique governor. What I like most about Spain and Eleanor is hybrid warmongering. Having to wait a little more and doing something that's not necessarily hard wired into the civ.
     
  6. Midgardsormr

    Midgardsormr Warlord

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    I had a similar experience my first time out with Eleanor, except that Pericles was on another continent and I started my campaign against him too late (Ottomans got a SV). Even so, I completely eliminated the Zulu and Scythia, and ate about half of Scotland, Netherlands and Korea before I realized, like you, that I was cannibalizing my own tourists. I didn't even really need to build new Theater Squares in Zululand because he'd built plenty of Entertainment Complexes, so I could run Bread & Circuses.

    The Indie Rock Bands are insane. Keep the Great Works and Bread & Circus attacks going on one side of the empire, and set the Rock Bands loose on the other side. Two concerts in the same turn from the Rock Bands, and it doesn't matter if loyalty pressure is in the positive double digits
     
  7. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    Yeah. Indie rock bands are pretty crazy if you have the faith. I found I had 18K banked because I built the Intelligence Agency instead of the Grandmasters.

    I almost flipped a city state and had to back my GW's off. I think I recall, was it you, that posted about flipping a CS?

    I was kind of curious about that but never tested it. I was wondering if the city has say +11 loyalty per turn and I send 2 Indie rock bands and lower the total loyalty to zero, whether it would flip. Are you saying it will? Or does there need to be a -1 or more with the 2 rock bands?
     
  8. Midgardsormr

    Midgardsormr Warlord

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    I did flip a CS, but I don't think I posted about it. It was Militaristic and Robert Bruce had 19 envoys there, so it didn't disappoint me, but it did surprise me. I'd always thought they were immune to external pop pressure. Maybe they are, and I just had so many Great Works nearby that I overcame it anyway.

    I converted a Scottish city that was at +13 (after the Governor) by double-tapping it with the Rock Bands, and it flipped over the next turn. You obviously can't expect this to work if you haven't been exerting your own loyalty pressure on it, though. If it's too far from your borders, I imagine it would go Free State for 5 turns, then go back to its original ruler.
     
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  9. NotThatOneGuy

    NotThatOneGuy Chieftain

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    Yeah, it's nice to flip the cities instead of assaulting to avoid population drops and wasting production on repairs. I've been trying to forward settle as much as possible, sometimes leaving a "passage" open to encourage the AI to settle a line of cities across my border. All I have to do is max out population and get great works in the forward cities. When they inevitably go to war with me, I take their highest population city near the "core" of their civ and the rest tend to start falling on their own (or with a little encouragement). Frees me up to have a smaller military or just wage war on someone else. Entire Civ's can be crippled or destroyed by taking one big border city. It's great.
     
  10. Mr. Shadows

    Mr. Shadows Nomad of the time streams

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    Very interesting approach. Did you make much use of Bread & Circuses?
     
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  11. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    Didn't use it at all. At the time I had this thing with projects, I just wouldn't use them. I still don't use them as much as perhaps I should, shrug.
     
  12. sethryclaus

    sethryclaus Chieftain

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    This is interesting but I prefer passive aggressive love-in Eleanor (or over-privileged millennial Eleanor as I think of her).

    Rush spies and use bread & circuses a lot as Mr Shadows mentioned.
    In the game I tested it in, I focused on getting inspirations to rush spies. I played on 1 step slower than standard and continents. I conquered my whole continent without ever going to war or having more than 1 melee and 3 ranged units. It was pretty funny. Only Emperor though :) I prefer to play weak civs like this on lower difficulties for fun.
     
  13. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    This thread is, to my way of thinking, completely irrelevant as the ZOC's of the units, encampments, and cities make conquest via melee & siege too slow (so a completely peaceful spy+bread & circus would be best).
     
  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    With Eleanor you just smash their army and walls, pillage their luxe’s then take the capital, that has a double loyalty pulse and is what is missing from this. Keys cities is too wishy washy. Large cities perhaps but TBH once the cap has fallen and they are miserable with no luxe’s a large city collapses due to the starvation as well.
    The nice thing about eleanor is they flip directly to you although free cities sometimes spurt out an early free builder.
     
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  15. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    Too wishy washy? I love how people talk about doing this or doing that but it's not repeatable from game to game. This was repeatable. At least it was before the cav nerf.
     
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I was just meaning the capital is the key to pushing over the dominoes as it is exerting 2x pop size.
    Try a game where you have to pillage every tile before taking out a city. Take some warriors and a catapult or swords and a bombard... the cat/bombard will not be shot at... and take Knight /horses for pillaging.
    One a city is starving and miserable it is easy
     
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  17. Gamer Grampz

    Gamer Grampz Chieftain

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    Interesting post. I've been meaning to try Eleanor out and just haven't gotten around to it yet. I think I'll player her next! :)
     
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    There is a sort of feel for when you can do it, Eleanor is better in a way because they flip directly to you and if they flip to another adjacent civ they are a free city (free meat) for a few turns.
    Best flipping game I had was weirdly with Brazil.

    Of corse you are replying to the OP but just saying that flipping is not just for the twins.
     
  19. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    @BarbarianHunter
    I am very late to this party.
    @Victoria are you saying to push through a Civ with Army and Take the Capital city and the rest of the Empire will Flip??

    After the 75 GOTM I am interested in playing this Civ and trying for a Peaceful Domination but I find it to be difficult.
    From what I could see is they rushed Religion and pumped out Settlers while building an Army to fight off Barbs.
    Next Rushed into Theaters and Entertainment Complexes running Bread and Circuses.
    I didn't see a lot of Governor Information but like I say that style of play seems like it has many moving parts and complex.
    I do like War so using Troops to take some cities and a Capital might be more fun for me.

    If anyone has time can you make a list of what to prioritize?
    I always seem to fall into some Barb trouble or a neighbor might try to roll me if I neglect early troops.
    What Map Type are you all playing this on and is Pangaea easier?
    Does a Religion make peaceful domination easier or can you just forgo it?

    I was reading this on reddit and seemed pretty detailed but I like to check the information with this forum.
    Nome287 typed up a decent 6 point strategy stating that you don't need Religion or Campuses.
    Is Divine Spark your best option for Pantheon??

    https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/b0rogi/eleanor_of_aquitaine_strategy_cant_seem_to_find_a/
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  20. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    Wish I could offer something helpful but I've by and large soured on the game post cav nerf and haven't kept up with the updates. Infantry/anti-cav is too slow to make this work IMO. I mean, it may work, but not as presented in my original post.
     
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