A Deity strategy for Poland - Singing Hussars

Mr. Shadows

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Over the summer I was playing the scenario Jadwiga's Legacy and started thinking of ways to use Winged Hussars on Deity in a regular game. They're a fearsome unit at 55 strength, 4 movement and a knock-back ability that can be used in lots of interesting ways. Poland is a very effective war-monger if you use them well. Granted you don't start with a killing machine that generates builders, it isn't 2 for 1 day at the vampyric horse farm and you don't get caffeinated archers, but they can be effective and they have a very unique path to vicotry. What makes Winged Hussars truly unique (as opposed to just a better knight) is their placement at Mercenaries on the culture tree. This means that the way to unlock them is by pushing culture; if you can leverage them you almost don't need science at all.
This strategy depends on founding a religion with Choral Music (hence the thread title) so your shrines (+2) and temples (+4) generate culture as well as faith. We have a large shopping list but this is the one truly critical element. Fortunately the ai doesn't seem to like Choral Music so it is reliably obtainable even at Deity. You have a wild card slot so it's worth it to pick up Mysticism so you can run the +2 Great Prophet card, but of course you still need to builld a Holy Site and run Prayers until you have your prophet. If you luck into Goddess of the Harvest it helps a lot, but otherwise +1 culture from pastures is still great, especially if you have a lot of pastures. For my second belief I like Defender of the Faith because it will keep you alive even if you don't have horses or iron. This has the advantage of letting you skimp on your military early on. An archer with one promotion and DoF attacks at +20 from inside a city. You could conceivably use Crusades, especially if you have Goddess of the Harvest and access to Yerevan. The problem is that you can spend so much on apostles that you can't afford Hussars. Tithe can be nice but the only real reason to evangelize is era score.
I won't spend too much time on the opening turns but I make sure to get my first city out and to build units to defend myself before reaching Astrology and building a Holy Site. Clearly you want to explore hoping to find a NW for the Astrology inspiration. If you luck into a relic in the opening turns it's a huge boost, but you can't expect that to happen. Initially you want to try for 6-7 cities, although it can be done with 5. If you have a nearby city-state you need to snatch it up. You want at least 4 fully realised Holy Sites but 5 is better. Remember they each produce +6 culture. You also want at least one encampment, for the eureka and so you can snag a medieval GG. I also recommend having a stable so your Hussars will get their first and second promotions faster. This is about the insta-heal which allows you to maximize your momentum when you start taking cities. After the HS and encampment come Commercial Hubs. If you have the hammers and location for the Coliseum you should prioritize it. The extra culture will pay off big time. Otherwise you want to unlock Theology asap after adopting Autocracy so you can build temples. You need a Govt. Plaza and The Warlord's Throne (the others won't help) in order to build the Grand Master's Chapel. The sooner you have it the better. On a bad day (four HS no Coliseum) I had it on turn 126 with enough faith for 8 Hussars. That was enough for a big expansion push, but if you can get it early enough it will be Hussars vs. Horsemen :)
Getting through the culture tree requires you to hit the eurekas. On Deity you probably will be attacked so Defensive Tactics is no problem, and you want an encampment so Military Training is covered. You may have to bite the bullet and build 6 farms though; you really need to maximize your Hussars' window of power. You should naturally pick up the eurekas for Mercenaries and Reformed Church.
Once you're ready to launch your attack be sure to bring inquisitors with you. Captured Holy Sites will contribute culture, and you immediately enjoy the +10 bonus from Defender of the Faith. Not only that it helps you control the territory by boosting loyalty. At this point two things will happen. One is that The Warlord's Throne will start generating a lot of hammers which can be very strong especially if you stack trade routes in a city with a Sukiennice. The other is that your culture will start to snow-ball enough to bee-line Nationalism and form corps out of your Hussars. If you can do this quickly your Hussars will hit extremely hard.
Throughout all this we've mostly ignored technology. Other than picking up common-sense techs the one thing you really need is Cartography, although Square Rigging can be a big help as well. With enough skill I'm pretty sure you can sweep the map. Pike and Shot are very bad news but if you pull this off well you should be able to have corps or even armies by the time you see ai Cavalry.
As an aside the culture bomb ability is very situational but loads of fun when you get the right chance. I was once able to steal three tiles and convert two cities with an encampment while at war for a +6 era score. It's not game changing but it can be helpful and it makes you feel clever when it works. However, Military Engineers aren't especially useful for this strategy because they come so late.
That wraps it up for now, although I'm sure I'll remember things I left out. I doubt I'm the first player to do this but as far as I know I'm the first to write it up. I hope all of you enjoy this and I'm looking forward to getting feed back. @megabearsfan I'm particularly interest in your thoughts because I've always enjoyed reading your strats. Let me know if you see a way to improve this strategy.
 
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I should mention, the card that boosts Hussar production comes at Divine Right. Monarchy is good for Poland, and I bee-line it after Mercenaries. You need it for the card, and it also unlocks the Grand Masters Chapel. If you have the chops available it's great if you can build some Hussars, but at least wait for the card. After Monarchy you go straight to Reformed Church.
Winged Hussars cost 425 faith once you adopt Theocracy. Personally I don't use the legacy card from either Monarchy or Theocracy but if you want one or the other make sure you finish the GM Chapel in that government. If you've been saving your faith you should be able to buy 6+ Winged Hussars immediately on finishing the Chapel. After that you should be able to buy another every 3-4 turns.
This strategy is devastating if you can cover 6 or more Holy Sites with the Coliseum. I had a game at king where I was able to do that and my Hussars were laughing there way through chariots and one-shotting city walls with a ram. My Frigate-backed WH armies with GG were attacking at 70 before I saw a knight. I didn't finish that game but my WH were certainly all I needed.
I also had a game on Deity where I struggled to found 5 decent cities. There just weren't many hammers in my part of the map. I didn't get the Coliseum or a GG. My Hussars weren't enough to end the game but they did more than triple my empire's size. At that point I had plenty if leverage to win even though I didn't get my first campus until close to turn 130. My conclusion is that this strategy is aces on a good day, but will reliably deliver victory even when things don't go your way.
 
I'd like to add a few words about the WHs' knock-back ability. If you aren't planning for it it can get you in trouble but with planning you can use it to wreak havok. You can use it to break a siege or to prosecute one. You can scatter units, and take shots away from ranged/siege units. If the other unit can't move it does extra damage which is particularly devastating because it implies a large flanking bonus. If you have taken DoF as I recomended you can use it to knock enemies into your territory where the next attack is at +10. It takes practice, but it can be extremely effective once you adjust your tactics. It also gives me a very satisfying sense of being in control of the battlefield. Your mileage may vary but for me this is the pay-off that makes this strat pop. These aren't just +7 knights, they really do have a flavor that's all their own.
 
Shi-. Yes. Yes you can upgrade chariots to it.

Here's another idea: Get Currency ASAP. Spam the Polish Commercial UB that gives an extra+4 gold for domestic trade routes. Accumulate Gold.

Before Mercenaries, build 20 chariots. Upgrade them to Winged Hussars.

Win!
 
Shi-. Yes. Yes you can upgrade chariots to it.

Here's another idea: Get Currency ASAP. Spam the Polish Commercial UB that gives an extra+4 gold for domestic trade routes. Accumulate Gold.

Before Mercenaries, build 20 chariots. Upgrade them to Winged Hussars.

Win!

That would give you knights, rather than Winged Hussars. Part of the reason I developed this is that I'm bored with the generic knight rush. You can do that with any Civ other than Egypt. The whole point of this thread is to provide a fresh alternative to the knight rush. You can probably get to the win screen faster with knights if that's your goal.
 
What do you do if you do not found a Religion? Do you have a high success rate of getting a Religion and all the Choices you need for this strategy? Can this Religion/War Strategy work with any other Civ? I seen you say something about on King Level... can you make this work on Deity? Is this a Deity Strategy? Sorry I was only skimming because of limited time. As always my questions are pertaining to Deity Only Games or Strategy. I find that founding a Religion isn't good for my games but since you said this was an alternative way to play and seems more like a Role Play to me I would be willing to mess with it for some fun in a few games.

This sounds like I would need a start that gives me some space and time to build and expand instead of warring it up which can be difficult on Pangaea/Deity since many games the neighbors are on top of me.
 
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@Fluphen Azine This definitely works at the Deity level. This strat is unorthodox but you don't do anything for the sake of role-playing. Ideally your goal is to close the game with Winged Hussars in the Medieval Era. They are devastating if you get them quickly enough.
Even at Deity I have always been able to get a religion with Choral Music. It has to be your first priority. It is reliably obtainable but if for some reason you can't this strategy is dead in the water.
You're right about it being hard to get space on Deity. I take CS when they're available but you really have to scramble to get 7-8 good cities. If you can you're primed for a very strong game. 5 cities isn't enough to win out-right with WHs but it is strong enough to catapult you to the top for an eventual win.

*Edit* This strategy is built around the WH's unique position on the culture tree. If you try to do this with any other civ you'll be left defenseless.
 
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Could you provide a Build Order that you like to use? Are you always playing this on Pangaea Maps? I am going to mess about with it but it seems a little situational and more complex to me. I also find your Shopping List, as you call it, a bit daunting. That is a bunch of stuff to hard build. Of course I have a problem with this waiting. I want to get to killing and get out 10 cities before turn 100 usually through war. This strategy is, saying to me, wait for War and become Pious! I think the player, me, has to think more with this strategy. I have to plan out if I can build the Colosseum. I have to detour my tech path and get up a Religion which means I have to race the AI which means I am going to run into some balancing issues.

I know I sound negative. I can't help it. I am a pessimist and cynical. Even after admitting all of this I am going to play my next 10 games or so with this in mind. I have to read and re-read your original post and some replies to get it fixed in my brain. I most likely will have to leave this window open and check on the strategy as I am playing. I did start a game yesterday with this in mind. The map was Pangaea and I was on the East Coast with a large mountain chain running East and West blocking Mongolia for me. I was able to go with Builder/Settler first and I had a CS to roll in my Westward Path. I was able to pump out 2 Expos and take out the CS before turn 50 however I had to delay my Holy Sites and somehow I missed a Natural Wonder so I didn't get the boost. The land wasn't very fertile so that is a bit of a problem. One Religion is up and 5 other AIs are 12 points ahead of me... all of them are 12 points ahead of me so I am not sure that I will get up a Prophet. If I can't get up a Religion I basically have to scrap the game since we are trying to push for a Religious Hussars. Not that I couldn't win the game but no point to play if you don't get a Religion. In my mind that is situational.

I will keep messing with it but it is speicalized. You can only play this with the one Civ and some of it has to fall into place. I would call this an advanced specialist strategy. It is certainly not for an average player! I am looking forward for you to break it down more and be a little more detailed with the first 50 turns of how to go about it. Since you are experimenting and bored with normal everyday mundane play with knight rushes and such. It would be nice for you to start posting up specific strategies for other Civs as well if you have the time. I seen a player use the Impis on the Deity GOTM a few months ago where he concentrated on Impis only and swept the map using Impis. I found that interesting because it was more of a specialized strategy for a specific Civ which is something we could use more of on these boards.
 
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Haha... well this certainly isn't meant for beginners. I don't think it's really that complicated, it's just very differrnt from the reliable formula that works for all civs. It's also unnerving watching the ai shoot up the tech tree while you're chopping in HS. It will be okay, but the first time you see it happen is scary. It goes against all the conventional wisdom. You will feel like you're playing slowly but there is a potentially huge pay-off coming right around turn 100.
On Deity you have to look at your start and decide if you need an immediate warrior for defense. If you can get away with it I like to start with a scout. That gives you a better chance of finding a NW, and lets you know where the best city locatuons are. I usually only have one settler built when I start building a HS in my cap. If you can get two settlers out that's great, but don't delay more than a turn or two.
When I started this I felt much the same way you do about religion. I like Rome, Greece and Kongo so I rarely wasted the time. Over dozens of starts I have never failed to get the religion I need for this, except for one where the ai got to me with an early warrior rush. It may not feel like it, but at least for Poland it is a reliable resource. Remember to get mysticism and run the prophet card. You only need 60 GP points so it makes a difference.
Remember that the belief DoF is fairly easy tomget and gives your troops +10 in your territory. Once you have that you can fight off a carpet of doom with a handful of archers and a couple warriors so don't waste hammers on troops. The first promotion on the right-hand side gives archers +10 when inside a district. That means they're firing at 45! You don't have to worry about swords or horses. After founding your religion build the rest of your cities ASAP.
Every city gets a HS ASAP. Other than the Govt. Plaza, one encampment and the EC/Coliseum you want CH because WHs are high-maintenance. The Suikiennice can give you a substantial amount of hammers. Harbors are also good, and you need two for the Cartography inspiration. I'd like to point out that we AREN'T buliding any campuses or TS.
It's true that you probabaly won't be able to chop EVERYTHING in, and you have to plan carefully. If you can you want to save chops for the GMC (that's the real bottle-neck) and or some early Hussars. Eventually you have to faith buy them but it is feasible to have 3-4 ready to go around turn 90. That early they're strong enough to win prizes while you get the GMC up.
 
FYI I've been playing this on standard/standard/continents. If you prefer Pangaea you don't need Cartography, which simplifies your life, although you might face more pressure from the ai before you get your religion up.
This strategy works because your HS are generating both culture (which is all the tech we need) as well as faith which is essentially pre-building our WH. That one district gives us almost everything we need. Once you have DoF you can hold off the ai with 6-7 units so don't build more than you need to take the nearby CS.
Once you get started the Warlord's Throne will start generating hammers. This gives you the chance to cash in on the extra hammers from the Sukiennice. The most obvious use is to build more WH or a navy to support them, but there's nothing stopping you from banging out Campuses to catch up. Hopefully you're trying to sweep the map ASAP because it all came together and your WH are unstoppable, but if not you'll still be able to roll 2-3 neighbors. At that point you can wait for tanks if you really want to.
 
I can see it is different on Pangaea compared to Continents. One difference is Land and Space. I rolled 3 games so far. All 3 games were below average dirt and 2 out of the 3 I had very close neighbors. My last game I had the Aztecs right on top of me to the Southeast. Spain to my direct Northeast. Gilgamesh to my direct Northwest and India on my direct West. Not to mention a few other Civs close by.

For me I just don't like the flavor. I decided not to attack anyone and I made friendly. It was easy enough to get a Religion and Harvest/Choral/Defender in this game. However not attacking these Civs and just Rolling them in plans to build Holy Sites and get all Religious doesn't make sense to me. I am not saying that a player can't make it work all the time I just find the game to be one of Great Finesse, at least in the Early Game, whereas I prefer Brute Force!
 
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That's a pretty fair analysis of the way this strat plays in the early game. What I've presented is an ideal to shoot for but (at least at my skill level) it takes a good roll for me to get everything the way I want it on Deity. You also have to have faith in the strategy because it feels like you're losing right up to the moment you start crushing your neighbors. WHs are so strong that you'll still be okay if you're a little slow. Personally I like using WHs so the pay-off is worth the planning. The more they smash the more your hammers and culture snow-ball. Eventually you start getting a tech every turn. It would probably be good for me to take a close look at how that works; it may be possible to back-fill techs but I'm not sure what's going on there. It was also a revelation to me the first time the ai attacked with horses and swords only to get butchered by a fortified warrior and three archers. DoF makes it easy to turtle. Anyway, thanks for trying it out. If nothing else it's a fresh approach.
 
Don't get me wrong. I am not knocking it. I am sure it works fine for you since you know exactly what you are doing and for players who are so skilled they can do anything. You are most likely able to hold off the urge to smash an expanding Monty or Roll an Easy Napoleon...errrr Medici. Also, I play every start so this can be a problem when you have less than great dirt.

I play onPangaea 98% of the time and 98% of the time on Deity. For, ME, it is very situational. If I am on the Coast or have only 1 or 2 close neighbors. I get a Faith CS or certain Faith or Culture CS. If I get a Relic Early.

I am going to fiddle around with it a bit more because once I get the pattern down I want to see how many times out of ten I can make this work.

It isn't like many players are posting up about this game anyways so we have to hand it to you for showing us a new way to go about a Strategy that can sweep the map in the Medieval Era, which is impressive with all the detours you take on this strategy. Of course, one might think if you can do all this and still win in the Medieval Era, this game is in worse shape than I thought and I already felt like this game is in horrid shape.
 
If you've been saving your faith you should be able to buy 6+ Winged Hussars immediately on finishing the Chapel. After that you should be able to buy another every 3-4 turns.
This strategy is devastating if you can cover 6 or more Holy Sites with the Coliseum. I had a game at king where I was able to do that and my Hussars were laughing there way through chariots and one-shotting city walls with a ram. My Frigate-backed WH armies with GG were attacking at 70 before I saw a knight. I didn't finish that game but my WH were certainly all I needed.
I also had a game on Deity where I struggled to found 5 decent cities. There just weren't many hammers in my part of the map. I didn't get the Coliseum or a GG. My Hussars weren't enough to end the game but they did more than triple my empire's size. At that point I had plenty if leverage to win even though I didn't get my first campus until close to turn 130. My conclusion is that this strategy is aces on a good day, but will reliably deliver victory even when things don't go your way.
I began a game on Deity-Pangea and, as is commonplace with deity, I was quickly forced to divert from the pure strategy and take a more pragmatic approach to English expansion and a Roman surprise war. My solution was to accept a city state emergency and use the funds to buy like 8 horses. This repulsed the Romans easily enough and allowed me to annex Scotland (who was nice enough to create 4 holy sites for me to use and activate the Great Prophet I bought with gold some time earlier).

The faith summoning Hussar plan is working out quite well though :D.
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Sid Meier's Civilization VI (DX11) 8_22_2018 1_31_52 PM.png
As deity has a way of messing up whatever grandiose plans I may have in mind, might I offer the “Singing Hussar Deity Level Axiom?” Build a commercial hub in the same city as your primary encampment district and run all your +2 production enhanced trade routes from the city. This will expedite the production schedule of Hussars should you find yourself faith challenged or without a religion due to AI antics.
 
Also, you can effectively do the same strat with Arabia (but emphasize science for Stirrups) but it's easier as you're guaranteed a religion.
 
@Fluphen Azine when I was working this out I started on King so I could work out my ideal blue-print in a low-pressure situation. After that I moved up to Deity because of course that's the real test. I never rejected a start because it was bad, but I did play (and replay in a couple cases) many games that I abandoned somewhere after turn 80. That reflects a lot of trial and error going into the learning process. I don't want to over-state my ability; at lower levels I can easily sweep the map but Deity is much more luck dependent. I ground out a few brutally bad starts on Deity once I was confident to see how I would do so I know it can be done with terrible dirt. On turn 115 I look truly dismal with 5 cities, but by turn 150 I have more than tripled my empire- those games are clearly "wins" but they aren't the elegant Medieval Era Dom sweep I'm aspiring to. By the way I've been playing Saladin lately (I've gotta give Poland a break!) and Choral Music has always been available, as has DoF. That leads me to believe that if you can get a religion you can get both of those. I'm not sure of that but they're very high percentage.
On a Pangaea map you face more early pressure, but you also stand to win more prizes in less time. I'm not emphasizing early war with this strategy but this isn't paint by numbers; you have to play the map and the situation. @BarbarianHunter there's nothing wrong with taking the Holy Sites from a neighbor, just as long you make sure to found a religion. I never said you couldn't beat up your neighbors if the opportunity presents :p In some cases I'm sure that gets you more cities faster which makes everything better. You don't have to turtle to get WHs out ASAP. I'll just point out that if you do turtle you can safely LET the ai expand and build all they want. It's not really theirs, you're just letting them do the work for you. Capturing four HS was probably worth it though.
You have an excellent point about leveraging the Sukiennice for hammers, especially once the Warlord's Throne kicks in. The combination can make it possible to crank out a new WH every 4-5 turns. I have always been able to get a religion with Poland except for the rare occasion when I don't survive the first 30 turns. If you don't get a religion when you want one it's probably a good idea to start over so you can practice founding a religion. If you can't found none of this will work because faith and culture are the same thing in this strategy. If you're faith challenged you're also culture challenged which means that you won't be able to make good use of your WHs. Those hammers are a great addition to your faith but they're no substitute. In any case it's great to see your take on this.
@MarigoldRan I just double checked for myself that Polish chariots still upgrade to knights. That link is just wrong. Have you played Poland much? Arabia can be very strong with Mamluks but that's a completely different strategy because they unlock at stirrups. Pushing culture will not get you Mamlucks, pre-building chariots will. Also, unlike Poland Arabia benefits from pushing science so this strat doesn't make any sense for them.
 
Thank you for the ideas. I play on iPad..which is vanilla....so I’ll have to adapt a little. Sounds like fun tho. I assume you deal with continents by swarming you Hussars across the ocean after cartography?
 
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