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A devistating loss turned to an epic win.

Discussion in 'CivWorld - General Discussions' started by Minor Annoyance, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    We (Germany) were about to be attacked by the Spanish Confederation. They had a large military plus the gladiators civic which increases their strength further. We had nine hours before the battle started so we had time to build more units, but they just kept adding more until they had over 2000 power, far more than we could make up for by adding more units.

    The weather was foggy so the best defensive unit was spearmen, and I had the production to make 100 of them (adding 800 power with heroic stance.) but we'd still be 600 short of being even. So I tried to rally people to build Call to Arms, and event wonder that would have killed almost half there army, but not enough people were around to get it built before the opportunity passed. I came back less than an hour before the battle to build and add in my troops. One other person from my civ was there and we discussed who had more troops to add to the last slot on the battlefield.

    I happened to notice how close we were to researching Monarchy, which gives you longbows. I went to the market and bought up the science I needed and instantly our archers upgraded to longbows (this also won me a science medal and made me science minister). Someone else had built up archers before we knew we would be in a fog battle, but with the upgrade their preferred weather changed from snow to fog, doubling their strength in addition the higher base defense power. We were closer but it still wasn't enough.

    Then I noticed Himeji Samurai Castle was available with monarchy too, and it increased the defense of all your units by one. This was perfect. I added one of my great generals to the wonder but it still needed someone else to add a great builder. The other guy online didn't have either of the great people required and not enough money to buy one (they were something like 7000 gold). By this time the battle had already started and the first rounds of combat were happening. I suggested selling my three great generals with would lower their market price, but he was flat broke likely from buying units earlier. All he had to sell was 4759 culture which was trading even with gold and the price would drop like a rock if he started selling. I had over 20000 gold and realized if I bought up culture it would greatly inflate the price. I proposed the plan and I bought up culture while he sold it. I popped a great scientist from it and he had the gold to buy a builder. The castle was built (I got a culture medal became minister of culture for helping to build it) and we were now slightly ahead in power with Spain.

    Then I noticed one more thing. When it looked like we weren't going to win I didn't set by spearmen to 'heroic' to avoid the extra casualties it would take in exchange for the increased power. Now that it wouldn't be an issue I set them to heroic and got a huge boost. We were not ahead 3100 to 2300. A landslide victory. I stuck around to watch the battle. We took few losses and theirs were near total. By owning about 1/4 of the units we had in the battle we just won (out of 18 players) I won a military medal and was made defense minister. All these medals also increased my rank in the civ and I was made king. Plus Spain had 18 players which was big enough to trigger a domination victory for us for beating them.

    It was quite the victory gotten from several last minute opportunities that I was in the right place to take advantage of, and I think the best part is that no one from Spain was around to see that battle. When they left they were expecting an easy victory and when they came back there army was gone, we'd won a domination victory and they'd have no idea how it happened. Well they might if they noticed we had the samurai castle, but when I got back s another civ had already built the castle for themselves and cancelled ours.
    Good times.
     
  2. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    I'm sure those Spanish players would have been there if they had the time.
    This is a very weak part of the game, battles aren't won because of better play,
    but because players aren't on-line due to real-life commitments.
     
  3. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    You're sure are you? Based on what information? Seems like you missed the point where I came up with a strategy and my civ won.
    Maybe they didn't have as much free time as me, or you for that matter as you took time time out of your day to comment on a game you clearly don't care for simply to say you don't care for the game, and also apparently to take me down a notch for daring to claim I actually accomplished something.
     
  4. bronzeager

    bronzeager Chieftain

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    that's a pretty epic win! so did you gain the final advantage by setting a heroic stance or taking it off? I'm a little confused on that point...
     
  5. Xinhuan

    Xinhuan Chieftain

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    He is trying to point out that being online for a battle offers tremendous advantage. Because you were online, you were able to turn the battle. If any of the Spanish were online, that might not be the case as they could also have been watching the market, or rebuilt the Himeji (yes, I had this happen to me, Himeji traded hands 3 times in the same battle in my previous game and the Great Person prices skyrocketed as both civs tried to one up each other).

    If anything, the Spanish could easily just add another 50-100 troops to the field if any of them were online.

    TLDR: Being online offers advantages. Being only able to log in twice a day for 30 min each will lose you Fame because you can only check on 2-3 contests per day, rather than the 10-ish contests if you were to log in 10 times a day for 5 minutes each.
     
  6. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    I put Heroic stance on to gain the power advantage.
    They couldn't have built Himeji because they didn't have the technology and didn't get it until earlier today, and there listed power was down to 50 after and is still very low, so they didn't have enough troops then or now.

    Yes, I'm awear being online at the time was an advantage. I just resented the implication that I won because I'm a loser with with nothing better to do with my time and took advantage of my opponents who were busy taking care of sick puppies with their adopted third-world orphan children to play a game.
    He tried to take the wind out of my sails and I may need that wind for the x2 strength bonus to naval units in the next war.
     
  7. gogogoff

    gogogoff Chieftain

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    YES, I had to go to bed last night, I LEAVE and we are winning EACH battle by 400+ I wake up, and we lost EVERYTHING.
     
  8. Shafi-is-back

    Shafi-is-back Prince

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    Thats why its always important to plan a battle so that at least the defense minister is available at the time of the battle. this is something we always talk about in our team. It's part of strategy.

    In fact ideally at least 2 -3 of the core players should be available. definitely a bad idea not having anyone around no matter how easy the battle looked.

    If you playing an online game being available is part of the deal. And if you are attacking you can pick the time.

    So well done on the epic win mate ... good on you :D
     
  9. Countmonte8242

    Countmonte8242 Warlord

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    Actually, seems like defense minister no longer has power over any troops but their own?
     
  10. Shafi-is-back

    Shafi-is-back Prince

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    what does the defense minister do then? and since when did hey change that?
     
  11. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    I was the defense minister and you can change the stance of other peoples troops.
     
  12. deviant devin

    deviant devin Chieftain

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    you made things a lot harder for yourselves than you had to. it really should be in the instructions or wiki or somewhere: if you are online, before it is your turn to attack, make sure your men are set to 'heroic' then while your men are attacking, set them all to 'fortify' before the enemy starts there attack.

    if you cant be online for the battle, set their stance to 'normal' and hope for the best. you sold your great people when you really didnt have to. and yes the battle system is super broken. the battles take hours, require that people are either online or the defense minister is online. and yea i just did a battle as defense minister and could still control all of the army.
     
  13. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    This "tactic" will certainly NOT speed up the battle.
    After many battles, I still can't discover any pattern in the attack chances in a row.
    There's still a good chance you'll suffer a counterattack after your first attack despite having 2 or 3 times more strength.
     
  14. Countmonte8242

    Countmonte8242 Warlord

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    When? There was a game update within the last couple days and yesterday I could only change my own troops' stances even though I was DM.
     
  15. deviant devin

    deviant devin Chieftain

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    i did this a couple of hours ago, ran the entire team no problem. :goodjob:
     
  16. deviant devin

    deviant devin Chieftain

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    if you are evenly balanced, then yes, you always alternate turns, if your entire board is full and so is mine, then we will take turns attacking. 1 attack once, you attack once etc. and yes i am conservative

    if it looks like i am winning and sometimes i get 2 attacks in a row, when my team makes one attack(ofc i had it set to heroic) i will always just change it back to fortify, so even if i get a second attack in a row, the second attack will be coming from fortified characters. then after the other side gets their attack, i immediately put mine back to heroic.

    also, after you wipe out your opponent's ranged fighters, you can leave all of your ranged attackers set to 'heroic' because they will be safe.
     
  17. Creepy Old Man

    Creepy Old Man Warlord

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    There's a reason you're seeing this alternating behaviour - but it's because you're causing it, not reacting to it.

    When you set your units to heroic, you double their strength. Similarly, defensive halves their strength. That means that your army strength is alternating between, say, 4000 and 1000. Your chances of getting the attack are dependent upon how much your strength beats theirs. So with everyone heroic, you're much stronger, so you attack. Then with everyone defensive, you're much weaker, so they attack.

    All that you're doing with that tactic is unnecessarily prolonging the battle, giving the opponent free opportunities to attack you, and taking far greater casualties than you should.
     
  18. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    It's hard to have a clear idea when you should go with heroic or fortify. If I get far enough ahead with heroic then I won't take any losses anyway. I'm not sure how it decides what unit takes damage when attacked, but it seems it's just the overall power that decides which side gets attacked. One reason to go with fortify is if you have very few units of one type. If they have ranged units and you have none then they get a x2 bonus on those unit so you don't want any one type to get wiped out.
     
  19. deviant devin

    deviant devin Chieftain

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    if you are evenly balanced you wont get 2 attacks in a row, even if you have all of your people on heroic. it doesnt happen. so if i know i am going to get attacked, why on earth would i not set my people to fortify?

    i know the attack is coming. if what you were saying was true, setting your people to heroic would just let you keep attacking. and that super hero civic would be game unbalancing.

    you are saying i am giving my opponent free attacks. the reality is that if you are playing an evenly balanced opponent, and if you are leaving your people on normal or heroic after making an attack, then you are just taking extra losses when you dont have to and giving your opponent free kills and being and easy victim when you dont have to be
     
  20. Verdisian

    Verdisian Chieftain

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    What are you talking about evenly balanced opponent? IF you have the same attack rating and turn them all on heroic you will in fact get more than 1 attack in a row because now your rating will be much higher than theirs.
     

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