A different dawn beta (Anno Domini expansion) Sept 21st 2008

[Hrafnkell]

I've reached the end of Anno Incepti and have built up a decent-sized empire of 27 cities. My first conflict (except for a meaningless declaration of war from Egypt that resulted in no blood shed) is with Iona. Those Druids are a frisky lot and their raiders have been breaching my borderlands and making my life miserable, so I've pepped up the border defenses and sending my single army against them.

The game is moving at a good pace and I see no problems so far. I'm having a lot of fun with it and I am looking forward to seeing what Anno Laxamenti brings.

Only thing I hate is having to wait so long for my longships! You know, those Saxon raiders in the 4th century had some nasty little ships...I wonder if we could find out anything about them and get one of our unit makers to whip one up to replace the Bireme for the Northern Europeans. It's sorta out of place in the Channel, North Sea and Baltic. Michael E. Jones (The End of Roman Britain) points out that "we have essentially no archaeological evidence for contemporary ships of the Saxons, Frisians, or Franks" but suggests we use the Nydam ships as a model. The evidence is, he says, that none of these people used anything but oars to power their ships until the end of the seventh century. This helps for the Norse as well since he points out one of the Nydam ships probably originated in Norway.

There are some images of these ships here: The Nydam Ships

and here The Nydam Boats

among other sites. Opinions?

 

[WildWeazel]

I haven't had a lot of time to play, but I've managed to get most of the way through the first era, playing as Macedonia on kulade's huge Eurasia map (it nicely covers all of the applicable regions for this mod). One thing I must complain about.... "Agrianian peltast" is too hard to pronounce, even in my head
Seriously though, aren't peltasts supposed to be light infantry? I understand the extra movement point, but it doesn't seem right that they have higher attack than a Broadswordsman.
It turns out that Temple of the Sacred water does in fact require a river- I didn't realize that a river on the edge of the city radius counted. Doesn't a city have to be adjacent to a river in order to grow without an aqueduct? One of the quirks of Civ, I suppose.
Also, custom music would be really cool......

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Seriously though, aren't peltasts supposed to be light infantry? I understand the extra movement point, but it doesn't seem right that they have higher attack than a Broadswordsman.

You're right; it's one of those things that's changed for gameplay reasons rather than historical. I needed the Greeks to have something that would cover horsemen and archers and the peltasts seemed to fit the bill.

Also, custom music would be really cool......

I tend to agree! I'll look into this as a seperate download.

Only thing I hate is having to wait so long for my longships! You know, those Saxon raiders in the 4th century had some nasty little ships...I wonder if we could find out anything about them and get one of our unit makers to whip one up to replace the Bireme for the Northern Europeans. It's sorta out of place in the Channel, North Sea and Baltic. Michael E. Jones (The End of Roman Britain) points out that "we have essentially no archaeological evidence for contemporary ships of the Saxons, Frisians, or Franks" but suggests we use the Nydam ships as a model. The evidence is, he says, that none of these people used anything but oars to power their ships until the end of the seventh century. This helps for the Norse as well since he points out one of the Nydam ships probably originated in Norway. Opinions?

Interesting. There are three ships on civfanatics already which might fit the bill. Have a look at these and let me know if you think any do look right - in fact one of these could potentially cover the trireme as well.




Thanks for the comments guys, I appreciate it !!

One blip I found in the game myself is that the Marcomanni worker cannot irrigate without fresh water; this has been fixed and will be in the next patch, along with a couple of minor graphics changes (I've scoured civfanatics and found a few buildings I'd not seen before) and, potentially, the Nydam ship (or a Nydam boat and Nydam ship ). Incidently, would these cover all European civs?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Hrafnkell, would your Jomsviking wonder graphics be suitable for the farmhouse available with toft? I would like to use the existing farmhouse graphics for the Marcomanni homestead.

 

[Hrafnkell]

I like the peltasts as portrayed. It matters less, I think, that they can take on a swordsman than that they cannot take on a hoplite or a phalangist, guys who would have normally chopped them to pieces (though at the battle of Lechaien during the Corinthian war a group of Athenian peltasts broke a Spartan phalanx unless less than normal circumstances). I don't see why they could not have held their own against unorganized "barbarian" tribesmen.

I think those ships are great. I'd seen then before but forgot about it when I wrote you (I like the left-hand one best because of the oars). I suppose we could excuse the sail, or assume some of the scholars are wrong. I, at any rate, could live with the sail if that's the price of jettisoning the bireme for non-Mediterranean cultures. No reason it can't work for the Norse, Marcomanni, Iceni, Goths, Frisians, Gauls, Coritani, Celtiberians and Aquitaine.

On a side note, I'm into Anno Laxamenti now in my game. The nasty she-druid has sued for peace and has been expanding in other directions (hmm...could read that two ways...). Meanwhile, the Athenians made an ill-thought out attempt against me, quickly crushed, which gave me a third army. Most of the civs on my continent are not expanding so it looks like a three-way battle between me, Iona and the Iceni. Still no problems with the game. I'd like my European swordsmen to look more "viking" but Civ has all those pesky restrictions on units, etc. so I can make do there.

I'm taking care of the music issue by listening to soundtracks like The Kingdom of Heaven, The Thirteenth Warrior, or The Clone Wars (which is actually very good music whatever you think of the film). If I was Rome I'd throw on the Gladiator soundtrack or Ben Hur or something. But yes, a custom soundtrack would be great.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Thanks for the comments! Please let me know about the Jomsviking wonder - will it work for the Norse farmhouse?

 

[Hrafnkell]

I will let you know as soon as I can get to it, Rob - and believe me, I want it! I've built a couple of farmhouses. Now it looks like the Iceni intend to make their presence felt so I'm back to military techs. By the way, all the British civs are unfriendly except the Coritani. It's as though they've looked into a crystal ball and seen the prows of all those longships pointed their way

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I will let you know as soon as I can get to it, Rob - and believe me, I want it! I've built a couple of farmhouses. Now it looks like the Iceni intend to make their presence felt so I'm back to military techs. By the way, all the British civs are unfriendly except the Coritani. It's as though they've looked into a crystal ball and seen the prows of all those longships pointed their way

I'll include that "Nydam boat" in the next update as a replacement to biremes for European civs. Maybe instead of using the lodya (by Orthanc) as a replacement to cogs for the Norse, I should use it as a replacement for triremes for all European civs - calling it a "Nydam ship?" Do you have any other names I could use?

I'm glad you're letting us know how your game's progressing. I believe I'm descended from the Coritani. We're a friendly bunch .

 

[Hrafnkell]

I've referred to a couple of different books, one on Carolingian warfare by Bernard Bachrach, as well as a couple of articles. Bachrach says that scholars call the ship "banana shaped" and refer to it as a "hulc" or "proto-hulc". I'd suggest "hulc" as being less unwieldy. This is Detlev Ellmer’s suggestion. He says that the word derived from the old German verb hohlen or hölken, meaning ‘to dig’ or ‘to hollow out’ (Ellmers 1972, 60-1). Stéphane Lebecq says that "the hulc [was] the main kind of ship used in the south-western waters of the North Sea" and that it was called a "Frisian pattern ship". Apparently others built it as well and it certainly sounds like the ships used by the Saxons raiders, being long and low in the water like longboats (which the hulc is also compared to).

Good to know about the Coritani!

 

[Hrafnkell]

I have a question for you, Rob: Which advance gives bridges? I had thought Engineering would but it doesn't. My poor lads are tired of getting their feet wet crossing rivers and it really slows me down when I'm trying to intercept raiders.

 

[WildWeazel]

The Gallic Warrior* is overpowered with ATAR and +1 HP. 2MP, ignore forest and hills would be less unstoppable.

Teuta made a reference to "raping and pillaging", which seemed odd coming from a woman.

battle story: I captured an Illyrian city, finally grabbing some copper and cutting their capital off from the rest of the nation, then made peace. The same turn that I attacked it, about 8 Gallic Warriors showed up out of nowhere and surrounded me, apparently having left Gaul a few turns ago when they declared war on me (I didn't know about these guys, and assumed it would take them 10-15 turns to reach me.) After taking the city from Illyria I moved all of my forces in, and started production on Greek Walls. The Gallic Warrior horde killed all but a single elite Peltast with 1HP. I managed to move a few fresh peltasts and an elite spearman in, and the walls were finished the next turn. Then a new stack of Gallic Warriors showed up, killing off everyone but the same Peltast, again with 1HP. Now he's the only one left, and there are still 6 Gallic Warriors within attack range

 

[Hrafnkell]

I sympathize, Weasel Op. I know I've said this before, but I hate those invisible warriors. In the past, I've made walls of spearmen between cities to keep them from infiltrating. In my last war (against Iona) they were deep within my territory, killing reinforcements before they could get anywhere near the frontline. I had finally resorted to a war of extermination due to the difficulty of keeping cities I'd captured from them (the no reinforcement issue) so I began capturing and leveling them instead. Had they not sued for peace, and had not my own people been in rebellion over war-weariness (put that in a Viking movie), they would today be but a memory.

Now they've recovered and I'm afraid I'll have to start the process all over again. The only thing saving me is that Iona and Iceni are fighting each other. Maybe I'll get lucky and the Spartans and Etruscans will pick up the pieces. They, at least, I'll be able to see coming.

 

[againsttheflow]

I wouldn't worry Weasel, sounds like that peltast can take care of itself.

 

[Hrafnkell]

Rob, I had an interesting contact with the king of Sparta, who might have a touch of dementia:

"I am territory map from the mighty land of the Norse..."

So he thought he was a map and that he's from my neck of the woods...I wonder if he got hold of a shipment of mead?

 

[Hrafnkell]

Here's another little problem: Nimrod's Tower is producing 3-man chariots instead of siege archers.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

The patch in post two has been updated as follows:

• Unit generating wonders now generate the correct unit; when I edited some units out of "a different dawn" I forgot to amend these wonders. Thanks Hrafnkell for spotting it .
• Gallic warrior UU stats changed to what Weasel Op suggested for gameplay balance.
• Hulc replaces the bireme for European civs - thanks for the research Hrafnkell.
• Marcomanni advantage that workers irrigate without access to fresh water now works (I spotted this error all on my own ).

I'll look into the diplomacy files when I get chance. Thanks a lot for your comments!!

 

[Hrafnkell]

Thanks, Rob! I downloaded the update so I can make use of it next game!

As far as the current game goes, I'm now into Anno Imperii (it's 510) and I've got Berserks and Athelings. I'd just finished turning most of my Tool Age spearmen into European spearmen and my economy won't allow another massive upgrade to Fyrd spearmen so I'm trying to upgrade those closest to my frontiers first, while upgrading my strike force with the Berserks. Anyone messes with me and as Eddie Murphy said in one of his films, "there will be consequences and repercussions!"

Right now, the others are fighting amongst themselves. They've all betrayed each other so I'm reluctant to take sides for fear of being left in the lurch, at least until I'm ready, which now that the Beserks are reaching the front in numbers, shouldn't be long.

The only other thing I've noticed is that Runestones cost as much as Temples, which I thought a little off, given one is a big old building and another is just a rock with some runes carved on it (not to mention Runestones are only half as effective as Temples). I'd suggest Runestones cost about half of what they do now, but definitely less than Temples. As it is, I won't be raising many of them.

Oh, and a question about Thinglaw...what is "relocation" precisely? I take it I'd suffer a massive population drain but can't find anything about it so don't want to take a big hit if I don't have to. For now I'm sticking with Monarchy.

 

[utahjazz7]

While within the realm of the Huns, I came across a radar tower. You can see it in the attached image, which was taken after I was expelled from their lands.

I did remove the custom terrain—except for the folder containing the cross-shaped victory-location marker—but I don't think that is causing this, since I didn't see any radar tower like images in there.

 

[WildWeazel]

Well, I guess I will start a new game with the patch...

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I have a question for you, Rob: Which advance gives bridges? I had thought Engineering would but it doesn't. My poor lads are tired of getting their feet wet crossing rivers and it really slows me down when I'm trying to intercept raiders.

It's set at construction, but it should be engineering. I'll change that next time.

The only other thing I've noticed is that Runestones cost as much as Temples, which I thought a little off, given one is a big old building and another is just a rock with some runes carved on it (not to mention Runestones are only half as effective as Temples). I'd suggest Runestones cost about half of what they do now, but definitely less than Temples. As it is, I won't be raising many of them.

I'll look into this. If I'm halving the cost of runestones, I'll need to halve the cost of the corresponding improvements for other civs.

Oh, and a question about Thinglaw...what is "relocation" precisely? I take it I'd suffer a massive population drain but can't find anything about it so don't want to take a big hit if I don't have to. For now I'm sticking with Monarchy.

Relocation, IIRC, loses one person from size one cities, two people from size two cities and three people from size three cities.

Well, I guess I will start a new game with the patch...

Ah well, at least those Gallic Warriors have been toned down a little .

While within the realm of the Huns, I came across a radar tower. You can see it in the attached image, which was taken after I was expelled from their lands.

I did remove the custom terrain—except for the folder containing the cross-shaped victory-location marker—but I don't think that is causing this, since I didn't see any radar tower like images in there.

The radar tower has actually been customized and should be showing as a border fort, not a radar tower. It's the "airfields and detect" file in the terrain folder. Just in case you've deleted that one, I've attached the file to this post .