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A female Sidar leader, aka Unit's dormant roleplaying genes acting up.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Cuteunit, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. SwordofStriker

    SwordofStriker Prince

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    Exactly. You're bound to have people who want to try your ideas. I like about 50% of the ideas you put out there and I'm sure I'm not alone. I'd probably like more if I wasn't so opposed to change. :p Make a Cuteunit FFH Mod, and you'd probably be surprised how many people would be willing to try it out with you.

    I've started collecting ideas for one myself, and sooner or later I'll get to learning how to mod this game. I've done some modding in the past for other games, mostly The Guild 2, but I imagine once someone gets familiar with the files and functions it's just a matter of how much time you're willing to spend on it.
     
  2. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Not really a fan of the picture choice. It doesn't fit the style of the other leader pics, and is definitely to "crisp" an image for a shade.

    I could probably be convinced to add her (or some other Sidar leader) to my modmod eventually (probably not in the next version), and I've been thinking of adding a couple more new leaders too: Tsvarlain (CoE's second hero was conceived as a second Dark Elf leader, and I may remove the unit to implement my original idea) for the Svartalfar and a Centaur general (haven't thought of a name yet) for Kuriotates (I'm thinking he was responsible for the deaths of Cardith's parents, and devoted himself to protecting the boy out a guilt). I would have to learn how to do leader art first, and find appropriate pictures.

    I don't see any more problem with the second Sidar leader being arcane than having the current one be Philosophical/Industrious, since those trait help boost great people so much. Lacking these, the Sidar could use some other way to get plenty of (great) specialists.

    Edit: I just realized that Sandalphon isn't philosophical, so I guess that argument is a little weaker now. I was remembering the traits I'd given him before shadow comes out. Actually, I don't consider defender to be a "whole trait," so I'll probably give him philosophical too (like I gave the Elohim leaders spiritual again since I didn't think defender was enough, and because Einion's Philosophical trait was nerfed by the removal of the education civics, and because it just makes since for the followers of the Angel of Spirit to be Spiritual)
     
  3. Saien

    Saien Warlord

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    Phil for Sidar is basically a cheat. It's an "I Win" button. Try it by playing with Dain on Sidar.

    Sidar don't use great people for "great specialists", so there is never any decision between using them for that and popping the lightbulb. Other than the altar, which isn't even required and IMO may not be the best path to get Shades, you have no real question of what you will do with a great person.

    This is all SP of course. In MP, Sidar are squishy early.
     
  4. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    i like it. i found the writing very creative :) and that portrait is spectacular. if you get her fleshed out i might make a mini-mini mod with her for you :p

    athough for traits i would put in summoning rather than arcane, as it still fits the amurite background of Myriel (magical) but would not overpower the shades. i also could not really see how financial would fit in?
     
  5. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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  6. Cuteunit

    Cuteunit Danse Macabre

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    Summoner sidar would actually be an interesting playstyle... it makes sense, considering they're Pacifists, so a summoner army wouldnt crush the army maintenance under that civic...something to do with those adepts besides shade them forever..

    Still.. Ench/Body/Spi none of those even have summons do they?
    If you gave Sidar Shadow then Sumoner trait would be practical..

    How can I flesh out ML's story you think?
     
  7. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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    She needs a Passion/Drive/Motivation. Something that supplies a reason to NEED to live for Eternity. So searching for something, trying to perfect a style/art/device, building something...

    As for No decent summons on the base Palace Mana, I don't think that should be too important. It's hard not to get at least ONE mana node in the course of a game. But yeah, granting Summoner to someone with no Summons in any of their base 3 might be a bit of a stretch.
     
  8. Domingo

    Domingo El Desaparecido

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    I like the idea of another leader for the Sidar or Svartlfar. I think it would be neat to add a neutral leader to the Svartlfar (I hope I'm spelling that right) to balance the neutral leaders that the Ljosfar have.
     
  9. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    I agree with you on the Svaralfar leaders. We need another civ that likes having a Council state religion, as well as for nice lore. Perhaps a Summoner master similar to the old hero Kael Colbane.

    Back to the Sidar. I like the idea of a new Sidar leader, but your leader seems to lack drive. We don't know why she wants to be a Shade, and why she's leading them instead of the thousands of other Sidar. Also the LH is too modern for FfH. I like a woman leader for them, and a summoner too, but I think the leader should be more driven than a mysterious foriegner.
     
  10. Cuteunit

    Cuteunit Danse Macabre

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    Guess I left too much open to question hehe. I'll noodle on it.
     
  11. Cuteunit

    Cuteunit Danse Macabre

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    Guess I left too much open to question hehe. I'll noodle on it.
     
  12. MaxAstro

    MaxAstro Spiral Knight

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    I like the idea a lot; I've always felt that every civ should have at least two leaders just to give more flexibility, except maybe the Grigori, who's whole point is that they are inflexible.

    You can't really give her Summoner without some backstory changes, however, as the Summoner trait is very much the domain of the Sheim. The only non-Sheim to have it is Keelyn, and she has Sheim blood.
     
  13. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    I disagree there. While the Sheaim are undoubtbly the most summon oriented nation, other civs are also good at summoning. The Svartalfar with their poweful illusions, the Balseraph puppeteers are as powerful as the Sheaim. IMO, more civs should be more summon oriented, because there are so few.

    Also, the Kuriorates shoudn't have a second leader. In the civilopedia, Cardith is called as their divine leader, who is unquestionable. If there was another leader, would he have had to circumvent Cardith's authority.
     
  14. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    i agree that shadow whould be a mana source for sidar as opposed to enchantment, i could never understand why they arnt already :p

    well ML's story is very good, but it dosnt explain her relationship with sandalphon, how did she get so much influence that she could talk to him like a friend? what is her immediate goal in becoming a shade ? i understand vanity is one, but theree must be somehting more...

    i would defiantely play as ML if she were summoner, financial, and had shadow mana (perhaps would it be possible to grant her a special building which adds shadow mana separate to the palace? and make it a national wonder so that only ML can build it once (link it to the leader))

    just my 2 c :p
     
  15. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    I think that Shadow mana would be a good replacement for Body. Why does a civ whose unique flavor is people who wane from the physical existance to become shades have Body mana anyway? Shadow mana seems a lot more appropriate for them. Enchantment makes sense to me, body not so much.

    Enchantment, Shadow, and Spiritual, that sounds like a nice combination.
     
  16. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I think summoning is a horrible trait for the Sidar at all. It doesn't fit thematically, it doesn't work well with their palace mana, and units that summon instead of fight don't get the xp they would need to become shades.

    I always assumed that Laroth was a master both spirit and enchantment, since he is known for ripping out people's souls and using them to enchant weapons (such as the netherblade). I assumed that the books that Varn's father took from Laroth and gave to his sons when they escaped to the Vale, and which Varn took from the vale into creation contained many spells of both spirit and enchantment. Since it is from these books that the Sidar learned how to wane and become the first shades, I assumed they probably learned a few more spells from it as well. Thus, Spirit and Enchantment are especially appropriate for the Sidar.

    I guess I could probably be convinced that the Sidar should have Shadow instead of Body. Although they care a lot about the bodily pleasures, they don't exactly seem capable of the rage and hatred that Aeron now embodies. Of course, their world spell, Ghost UU's staring promotion, and the UB I'm adding in my modmod make Shadow clearly be a weaker spell sphere for them.

    I also think that this book alone almost justifies making the Sidar leader Arcane, even if not of Amurite blood.

    I was just thinking, the Books of Laroth would be a very enticing target for an Amurite. I'm thinking that Myriel doesn't really care about becoming a shade and doesn't care about getting close to Sandalphon; she wants to get close to the Books of Loroth, to gain knowledge of one of Kyorlin's greatest students. An endless life in which to study them could be helpful for her too.


    I think that in my modmod I'll give Saldalphon Philosophical, and maybe implement another leader who is arcane (possibly stealing Cuteunit's leader idea, but likely with a few changes (definitely not that picture)). I'll then probably increase the level requirement for becoming a shade.
     
  17. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    This might make a nice leader head image. The background would have to be edited to clean it up a bit. Could make a nice Amurite leader or the Amurite turned Sidar leader.
     

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  18. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    She looks kind of.... bright. But the overall character is nice.
     
  19. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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    I personally could see an easy justification for any trait but Adaptive & Insane on a Sidar Leader. Afterall, each Sidar has one area which they were so passionate about they Waned to study/develop it. If they have been doing so for eons, that justifies a trait! So no matter what fits their backstory as a Civilization, anything can fit the backstory of an individual leader :)
     
  20. Cuteunit

    Cuteunit Danse Macabre

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    That actually is her primary objective, I just didnt want to spell it out and dispell all the mystery like I was writing about midicholorians ( damn you Lucas for turning the Force into bacteria).

    Now, is she being honest about actually being a fugitive, or is she a spy FOR valledia? Sandalphon would probably know which, either way. So his motives for it could be multi layered too.

    Even the secrets of the Waning process would be attractive to the Amurites.

    I had her in mind as a leaderhead in the same vein Amelanchier is. Amelanchier is just in charge of Arendel Phaedra's rangers, ML could simply be bringing the Amurite to the Sidar arcane practice.

    I like her picture :/ I'll go looking for something MC might like more, since I dont want to photomanip the original.
     

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