Queen Theophania

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Hey y'all, this forum might not be the best place to put this (and if it isn't then the mods are totally free to move this thread) but I want to make a mod that adds several Native American City States (from both North and South America). I originally only wanted to ashow this to Zaarin to ask him what he thinks and have him give me some suggestions since he seems to be pretty knowledgeable about this subject but the character limit for posts on peoples profiles didn't allow that so I'll just put it here. Civ 6 modding discussions are for sure not what everyone here is looking for but I thought I might just share this to get some feedback from people who might know about this more than me.

I plan on adding these City States in groups of 2 per city state type until there's finally 6 per type, though I've only thought of effects for 4 City States for now safe for one exception. a "???" means that I don't have a City State planned for that spot yet and would like to take your guys' suggestion for what I could add to the mod!

Cultural City States
  • Finca 6: Allows suzerain to build the diquis sphere improvement, that provides Culture (Archaeological site in Costa Rica, geographically and culturally unique, though the number in its name kinda bugs me)
  • Onondaga: +0.5 Culture per envoy sent to any city state, doubled Diplomatic Favor from suzerainty (I feel that the more cermonial role of Onondaga to the Haudenosaunee compared to old world capitals marits making it a cultural City State)
  • Os Camutins: Artifacts yield double Culture and Tourism (Archaeological site of the Marajoara culture of Brazil famous for the pottery they left behind)
  • Tuktoyaktuk: Snow and Tundra tiles provide +1 Food and +1 Culture, Fishing Boats provide +1 Food (traditional Inuit hunting and fishing settlement in far northern Canada, it doesn't strictly need to be cultural but I think it fits)
  • Tségháhoodzání: ??? (Capital of the Navajo Nation, maybe its bonus could be giving its suzerain access to Navajo code talkers?)
  • ???
Industrial City States
  • Teyuna: Districts next to at least 2 mountain tiles provide an amenity and two housing (Important Archaeological site in northern Colombia, sadly not too much is known about it so I made it industrial because of its impressive architecture)
  • Chan Chan: Aqueducts, Dams and Canals yield +4 Food and +2 Production (Very important archaeological site in Peru with extensive irrigation systems)
  • Moxos: Floodplains provide +1 Production. Districts and tile improvements can’t be pillaged by floods (Area in Amazonian Bolivia with impressive engineering works, also not a settlement though there isn't really a way around that in this case)
  • Teotihuacán: +50% Production towards districts and +25% Production towards buildings and wonders in your capital (probably doesn't need an introduction)
  • Moundville: ??? (Don't know if Industrial fits this one very well tbh)
Militaristic City States
  • Guapondelig: +15% Production and +15 starting EXP for military units in cities not originally founded by you (Regional capital of the Incas in Ecuador previously owned by another also militaristic ethnic group)
  • Hochelaga: All your newly founded cities automatically get ancient walls (St. Lawrence Iroquian walled village, would be more of a defensively focused City State which I think is also just a nice change of pace)
  • Masset: Melee naval units get +4 Combat Strength if fighting on coast tiles. Bonus doubled to +8 from the Industrial era onwards (Haida village, dunno if this is the best choice but they need to make it in some way or another)
  • São Luiz Gonzaga: Your units get +5 combat strength when fighting on the same continent as your capital and an additional +5 strength if fighting units whose capital is in another continent (Guarani Mission where the Guarani war was fought, just think it's a good choice to represent a nomadic people)
  • Werewocomoco: ??? (Would probably have some sort of city state centered bonus)
  • ???
Religious City States
  • Chaco Canyon: Your shrines and temples provide Production equal to their intrinsic Faith output (Not very happy with this bonus honestly, if anyone has a better idea please share it)
  • Guachimontones: Allows suzerain to build the Guachimón improvement, that provides Faith (Important mesoamerican city, you might start seeing a pattern here)
  • Fort Ancient: Allows suzerain to build the Effigy Mound improvement, that provides Faith (Effigy mound later inhabited by the culture that built Serpent's Mound, the Effigy Mound improvement would give strong yields depending on what districts are adjacent to it but could only be built once per city)
  • Tiwanaku: Wonders yield +4 Faith (Kind of an obvious choice for this type of thing)
  • ???
  • ???
Science City States
  • Caral: Buildings unlocked by Ancient era Technologies and Civics grant +1 Science per turn per era since they were last built or repaired (Choosing scientific city states was quite hard, went with Caral since it's such a pioneer in America in general in so many aspects)
  • Cempoala: Allows suzerain to build the Stone Ring improvement, that provides Science (Another Mesoamerican city that I don't know too much about)
  • Kuhikugu: Harvesting Rainforest features generates 50% more Food and Production and also yields Science (Ancient central Amazonian city, picked as a scientific city state to represent the technological advancement of terra preta for Amazonian cultures)
  • Tuskegee: Get a free eureka every time a Great Person’s effect is activated (Town where Sequoyah, inventor of the Cherokee syllabary was born, kind of a non brainer to represent a more modern American Indian people and the southeastern US)
  • Mound Key: ??? (Chosen as scientific to reflect the innovation of its inhabitants, the Calusa, at forming a sedentary society without farming, would probably have a unique improvement as a bonus)
  • ??? (Maybe a village of one of the Five Civilized Tribes could fit here?)
Trade City States
  • El Tajin: Improved Luxury resources provide an additional +2 Gold (Commercial powerhouse in Mesoamerica that dealt with luxuries such as vanilla)
  • Yaanga: Allows suzerain to build the unique Te’aat improvement, that needs to be built on coast tiles provides +2 Gold to the tile it was built on and adjacent tiles (Tongva settlement in modern day California, Californian natives definitely deserve some sort of representation and some sort of trade cs seems to be the best option, though it could easily be another Tongva settlement or a Chumash one)
  • Yuquot: Your international trade routes get +1 Gold per Fishing Boat and +2 Gold per Camp in their origin city (Nuu-Chah-Nulth settlemend in Vancouver island instrumental to the fur trade in the North American northwest pacific coast)
  • Tulor: ??? (Ancient city in the Atacama desrt of northern Chile, apparently also very important for regional trade)
  • Michilimackinac: ??? (Pretty much the capital of the Anishinaabe confederacy, the Three Fires Council, took the place of Shamokin as I think it's a bit more important)
  • Like-a-fishhook: ??? (One of the very few viable City States in the Great Plains)
My main goal with these picks was to ensure geographical and linguistic diversity by having only one city state per type per cultural zone in the Americas, I'm not an expert in Native American studies by any chance so if you think there's a better way to represent the people groups I've chosen or correct any mistake please share it!
 

Zaarin

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I can't say much about anything south of Mesoamerica, but I'll comment on what I can.

Onondaga: +0.5 Culture per envoy sent to any city state, doubled Diplomatic Favor from suzerainty (I feel that the more cermonial role of Onondaga to the Haudenosaunee compared to old world capitals marits making it a cultural City State)
An interesting choice. I would have been inclined to make it Militarist given the hyper-aggressive nature of the Haudenosaunee. In fact, given that the Powhatan expanded through both diplomacy and arms, I might give this ability to Werowocomoco, move it to Cultural, and make Onondaga militarist with a bonus related to conquest. I've long thought that gaining population from razing cities would be a great ability for the Iroquois, and a toned down version of that could be given to Onondaga.

Tségháhoodzání: ??? (Capital of the Navajo Nation, maybe its bonus could be giving its suzerain access to Navajo code talkers?)
Navajo feel like a natural candidate for a Trade city-state.

Cultural City States
Culture is a natural place to include a northern Pacific Northwest city-state. Yakutat or Sitka (both Tlingit) would be pretty good candidates here--probably the most obvious bonus would be granting a Crest Pole unique improvement.

Teotihuacán: +50% Production towards districts and +25% Production towards buildings and wonders in your capital (probably doesn't need an introduction)
Very happy to see Teotihuacán get represented outside the Aztec. Like Ugarit on the Phoenician city list, it feels very wrong on the Aztec city list.

Moundville: ??? (Don't know if Industrial fits this one very well tbh)
This feels a little redundant with Cahokia already in the game and represented so well.

Industrial City States
I don't have a specific bonus in mind, but Halona Idiwan'a (Zuni Pueblo) would fit well here. One I do have an idea for:

Yuquot: Fishing Boats grant +2 Faith. (The Nuu-chah-nuulth and their cousins the Makah were the only indigenous people of the PNW who engaged in whaling, and they were quite good at it.)

Hochelaga: All your newly founded cities automatically get ancient walls (St. Lawrence Iroquian walled village, would be more of a defensively focused City State which I think is also just a nice change of pace)
Interesting choice. The Laurentians don't seem to have been that militant, and their defenses obviously didn't serve them very well. What about Ossossane, the capital of the Huron-Wyandot?

Militaristic City States
I have no specific ability suggestions, but Turikaku (Pawnee) and Chickamauga (Cherokee) might be some good additions here. Another:

Mound Key: All marine resources and features provide +2 Gold.

Chaco Canyon: Your shrines and temples provide Production equal to their intrinsic Faith output (Not very happy with this bonus honestly, if anyone has a better idea please share it)
I think Chaco Canyon should grant a Cliff Dwelling unique improvement: must be built on Desert; grants +2 Housing, +1 Faith, +1 Production; adjacent Desert tiles may be farmed; cannot be built adjacent to another Cliff Dwelling. (Could be adjusted.)

Religious City States
Another possible religious city-state would be Prophetstown. A nice bonus might be a combat bonus against units belonging to civs who have Luxury Resources you don't have (representing Tenskwatawa's message to abandon European trade goods).

Michilimackinac: ??? (Pretty much the capital of the Anishinaabe confederacy, the Three Fires Council, took the place of Shamokin as I think it's a bit more important)
Michilimackinac was a major meeting point for people of all sorts of backgrounds--Anishinaabe, Shawnee, Huron, Iroquois, French, Métis, etc. I'd suggest something like +2 Culture for every foreign trade route entering or leaving your cities.

Like-a-fishhook: ??? (One of the very few viable City States in the Great Plains)
Yes, the Mandan are an ideal choice for a Plains tribe with a trade emphasis. I don't have a suggestion for an ability off the top of my head.

Trade City States
I've got several good suggestions here.

Chillicothe: Your trade routes can move 10 hexes further. (The Shawnee are mostly remembered for their wars under Tecumseh, but they were the premier traders of the indigenous East. Shawnee was the lingua franca of virtually everywhere beyond the American frontier, and the Shawnee were noted for how far they ranged.)

Gida'nsta (Skedans): Your trade routes gain +1 Culture for every Great Work in the originating city and +1 Faith for every Great Work in the destination city. (The Haida traded up and down the Pacific coast, and they, like other PNW peoples, had complex and rich customs for the preservation of clan artifacts, including intangible objects like names, songs, and dances.)

Tilantongo: Trade Routes gain +2 Gold for every Mine in the origin city. (The Mixtec were the premier metal workers of the Pre-Columbian New World.)

Tuckabatchee: Every city-state you are suzerain of provides you with one copy of the Black Drink luxury.

Gánį Kóé: International Trade Routes gain +1 Gold for every flat Tundra or Snow tile in the sending city. (This helps fill in the gap of missing northern Athabaskan tribes.)

Nehalem: ??? (I feel like the Salishan peoples need to be represented here somewhere.)


Trade and Militarist city-states are probably overrepresented, but it's the two areas that non-Mesoamerican city-states would most easily fit into. I also probably somewhat overrepresented the PNW, but it's the area I know the most about. Some people groups are hard to represent as city-states due to their lack of cities or villages (e.g., I'd like to see the Nez-Perce included, but they were entirely nomadic. Similarly the Caddo are undoubtedly worthy of some representation--but at least I managed some slant representation by suggesting their Mandan-influenced cousins, the Pawnee). There are probably a few more areas that could be better represented, but I've done about as much as I can tonight. I'll look back tomorrow.
 
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Like-a-fishhook: ??? (One of the very few viable City States in the Great Plains)
I like it, if not for the name only.
For the last militaristic one I would suggest a Comanche one. I don't have a city name off the top of my head considering they were primarily nomadic though.

Culture is a natural place to include a northern Pacific Northwest city-state. Yukatat or Sitka (both Tlingit) would be pretty good candidates here--probably the most obvious bonus would be granting a Crest Pole unique improvement.
I second this.

Navajo feel like a natural candidate for a Trade city-state.
I feel like the Navajo could go in multiple directions. If the Navajo code is referenced in the suzerain ability it could definitely be considered cultural.
 

Zaarin

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I feel like the Navajo could go in multiple directions. If the Navajo code is referenced in the suzerain ability it could definitely be considered cultural.
I feel like the Navajo probably fit best as Trade or Industrial, both referencing their exceptional craftsmanship in wool and silver. They didn't so much have a code as a language that was 1) extremely obscure to East Asian codebreakers and 2) polysynthetic and therefore very difficult to crack so I don't really see that as an argument for Cultural; the best argument for making them Cultural is probably the artistry of the items they crafted--but I still think that makes them a better fit for Industrial/Commercial.
 

BuchiTaton

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Considering the options for a CIV6 mod. What about these:

MESOAMERICA
- Cultural
Guachimontones, certainly religion was important for the Teuchitlán culture and the Tumba de Tiro tradition, but compared to other mesoamerican regions their art is dominated by mundane motifts.
- Industrial
Teotihuacan, agree the masive monuments and the specialized artisant neighborhoods fit nice for production bonuses.
- Militaristic
Tzintzuntzan, the Purepecha were a true imperialistic power, also more pragmatic warriors who used bronze, ambush, archery and rejected the need of take captives in battle.
- Religious
La Venta, since is for CIV6 the slot is already covered. Anyway between the many mesoamerican cities that could be religious Cholula stand out.
- Science
Mitla, also covered on vanilla game. Zapotec were good at science but I think Dani Baán (Monte Albán) is a better city to represent that.
- Trade
El Tajin, agree too. The Totonac region was a important trading zone, but have a second city with Cempoala maybe is too much for CIV's scale. A "Voladores" building improvement could be added to any Totonac city.

About Central America beyond Mesoamerica (proper) Kaha Kamasa would be nice. Is a shame that on CIV Maya civ is always a so big/umbrella, hope CIV7 is more centered to proper Maya (Yucatec/Mayapan or maybe Itza*) and leave place for free highland "maya" city states.
 

Queen Theophania

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Thank you so much for writing all this out! I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to review my City State choices and suggest some of your own, I'll take your recommendations into account and have a couple of comments myself

An interesting choice. I would have been inclined to make it Militarist given the hyper-aggressive nature of the Haudenosaunee. In fact, given that the Powhatan expanded through both diplomacy and arms, I might give this ability to Werowocomoco, move it to Cultural, and make Onondaga militarist with a bonus related to conquest. I've long thought that gaining population from razing cities would be a great ability for the Iroquois, and a toned down version of that could be given to Onondaga.

I agree that Onondaga and Werocomoco could be switched out for one another in this case, though one of the reasons I picked Onondaga as a cultural CS in the first place is the influence the Haudenosaunee had on the US constitution, which would most likely fall under culture in Civ 6 terms.

This feels a little redundant with Cahokia already in the game and represented so well.

I do feel that it's a bit redundant too, I'm unsure on whether to include any Mississipian sites in the mod due to their overlap with Cahokia, though maybe including some more would also emphasize the prevalence of mound building in pre columbian North America.

Trade and Militarist city-states are probably overrepresented, but it's the two areas that non-Mesoamerican city-states would most easily fit into.

Yeah I definitely agree, just due to the nature of the interaction between Native Americans and Europeans in the US and Canada it's much easier to find appropriate trade and militaristic CS candidates, that's actually why I decided to make the mod include City States from both North and South America to be able to patch up certain geographic areas that might be lacking in City States (for example scientific CS outside of Mesoamerica) and mantain an even number of all types of City State.

I agree with pretty much all you said and will take it into account, once again I'd like to reiterate how much I appreciate your expertise on this subject and thank you for helping me out!

EDIT: Oh god I really messed up the quotes here somehow, Idk how to fix it so please ignore how ugly they look :/
 
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I feel like the Navajo probably fit best as Trade or Industrial, both referencing their exceptional craftsmanship in wool and silver. They didn't so much have a code as a language that was 1) extremely obscure to East Asian codebreakers and 2) polysynthetic and therefore very difficult to crack so I don't really see that as an argument for Cultural; the best argument for making them Cultural is probably the artistry of the items they crafted--but I still think that makes them a better fit for Industrial/Commercial.
I think keeping their culture intact through their language is what I was thinking, not actually spreading it. But trade does fit well as well as industrial. You could also make an argument for religious, but then every tribe could be seen as religious, in that regard.

Yeah I definitely agree, just due to the nature of the interaction between Native Americans and Europeans in the US and Canada it's much easier to find appropriate trade and militaristic CS candidates, that's actually why I decided to make the mod include City States from both North and South America to be able to patch up certain geographic areas that might be lacking in City States (for example scientific CS outside of Mesoamerica) and mantain an even number of all types of City State.
If you are looking for another scientific state outside of Mesoamerica, the Pueblos of Mesa Verde also did astronomical observations to plan farming and religious ceremonies.
 

Queen Theophania

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For the last militaristic one I would suggest a Comanche one. I don't have a city name off the top of my head considering they were primarily nomadic though.

I've actually been looking for the name of any Comanche settlement for the last month and haven't had any luck finding one :(
 

Queen Theophania

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Considering the options for a CIV6 mod. What about these:

MESOAMERICA
- Cultural
Guachimontones, certainly religion was important for the Teuchitlán culture and the Tumba de Tiro tradition, but compared to other mesoamerican regions their art is dominated by mundane motifts.
- Industrial
Teotihuacan, agree the masive monuments and the specialized artisant neighborhoods fit nice for production bonuses.
- Militaristic
Tzintzuntzan, the Purepecha were a true imperialistic power, also more pragmatic warriors who used bronze, ambush, archery and rejected the need of take captives in battle.
- Religious
La Venta, since is for CIV6 the slot is already covered. Anyway between the many mesoamerican cities that could be religious Cholula stand out.
- Science
Mitla, also covered on vanilla game. Zapotec were good at science but I think Dani Baán (Monte Albán) is a better city to represent that.
- Trade
El Tajin, agree too. The Totonac region was a important trading zone, but have a second city with Cempoala maybe is too much for CIV's scale. A "Voladores" building improvement could be added to any Totonac city.

About Central America beyond Mesoamerica (proper) Kaha Kamasa would be nice. Is a shame that on CIV Maya civ is always a so big/umbrella, hope CIV7 is more centered to proper Maya (Yucatec/Mayapan or maybe Itza*) and leave place for free highland "maya" city states.

I'm really not very knowledgeable about Mesoamerica so thank you for all these suggestions! If I may ask you something, what Mesoamerican City do you think would make a good Scientific CS apart from Mitla? I'd like to add at least 1 new Scientific City State from Mesoamerica with my mod and don't know which one would be the best option for this.
 

Queen Theophania

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I feel like the Navajo probably fit best as Trade or Industrial.

I was actually thinking of maybe including Casas Grandes or Snaketown as Industrial CS and maybe having Tségháhoodzání be one too in the same general area might be a bit too claustrophobic? The fact the Navajo are completely culturally unrelated from any Puebloan tradition makes this less of an issue but it might still not be preferable. (Also the general availability of good candidates for Native American Trade CS kinda disincentivizes me from making Tségháhoodzání one too)
 

Zaarin

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though one of the reasons I picked Onondaga as a cultural CS in the first place is the influence the Haudenosaunee had on the US constitution
That idea is highly contested by scholars. There's a lot of documentary evidence pointing to influence by Enlightenment philosophers and Classical republics (including a popular conception of pre-monarchic Israel as a Republic) and none for inspiration from the Iroquois.

I'd like to reiterate how much I appreciate your expertise on this subject and thank you for helping me out!
No problem. :)

I was actually thinking of maybe including Casas Grandes or Snaketown as Industrial CS and maybe having Tségháhoodzání be one too in the same general area might be a bit too claustrophobic? The fact the Navajo are completely culturally unrelated from any Puebloan tradition makes this less of an issue but it might still not be preferable. (Also the general availability of good candidates for Native American Trade CS kinda disincentivizes me from making Tségháhoodzání one too)
In that case, I think Culture can work.
 

Queen Theophania

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That idea is highly contested by scholars. There's a lot of documentary evidence pointing to influence by Enlightenment philosophers and Classical republics (including a popular conception of pre-monarchic Israel as a Republic) and none for inspiration from the Iroquois.

Oh shoot I think you're right, I've been reading a lot about the Haudenosaunee lately and a lot of sources postulate the idea they influenced the US Constitution as a clear cut fact, thanks for reminding me!
 
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Queen Theophania

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After adding and moving around a few City States that you guys suggested there's only a few spots left to fill, and there's a few things of note with this almost finished list:

One is the kind of inevitable emptiness in the Great Plains, that's 100% to be expected but still very noticeable, I've read of a Dakota settlement called Caposia so maybe that could be added?

I changed Hochelaga for Ossossane and that left a huge chunk from Toronoto to Quebec City devoid of CS.

There is also a large hole left in the American Southeast, there will not be much filling it specially if Moundville is replaced, I'm thinking that adding a Creek, Shawnee or maybe Chickataw town would help here.

The Caribbean is also unfortunately empty as I haven't been able to find much on Carib settlements at all.

The area around Yucatan is also quite empty though the Maya civ makes that problem way less signifcant.

Another thing that really bugs me here is the total lack of anything in Venezuela or the Guyanas, I have been looking into Indigenous people in this general area and it's been shockingly hard to find much of note, not just in terms of CS I could include in my mod but in general.

And lastly the Southern Cone is also devoid of representation here, which is a shame but also understandable since almost all of its precolumbian inhabitants were nomadic.

Additionally a lot of City States of the same type are geographically close to eachother, for example Prophetstown is very close to Fort Ancient and Onondaga is to Ossossane which isn't a huge problem but is fairly noticeable.

Y'all have already helped me enough which I'm really thankful for so I don't want to pressure anyone into putting much time into this, but if any of you have any idea how to solve these remaining issues it'd be cool to see it :>
 
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There is also a large hole left in the American Southeast, there will not be much filling it specially if Moundville is replaced, I'm thinking that adding a Creek, Shawnee or maybe Chickataw town would help here.
You already have a Shawntee settlement with Prophetstown, if you include it. There's also the Seminole.

The Caribbean is also unfortunately empty as I haven't been able to find much on Carib settlements at all.

The area around Yucatan is also quite empty though the Maya civ makes that problem way less signifcant.

Another thing that really bugs me here is the total lack of anything in Venezuela or the Guyanas, I have been looking into Indigenous people in this general area and it's been shockingly hard to find much of note, not just in terms of CS I could include in my mod but in general.
There are groups of Caribs who did live in settlements along the coast of Venezuela. I don't know if any names of the settlements are known, but it is specifically the Kalina (mainland Caribs). If so, that can take care of two of them at the same time.
 

Zaarin

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One is the kind of inevitable emptiness in the Great Plains, that's 100% to be expected but still very noticeable
Yeah, this is hard because there were very, very few settlements between the Mississippi River and the Rocky Mountains. The Mandan and the Pawnee had villages on the eastern edge of the Plains (you already had the Mandans represented, and I suggested the Pawnee as well). The Blackfoot and others had villages in the Plateau Region, not in the Plains but emulating Plains culture. Similarly certain groups in the Great Basin. There were permanent villages in the Great Lakes, of course, and in Texas. But all these places are on the periphery or outside the Plains.

I changed Hochelaga for Ossossane and that left a huge chunk from Toronoto to Quebec City devoid of CS.
At the risk of overrepresenting the Northern Iroquoian peoples, Hochelaga or Stadacona could work as a Commercial or Industrial city-state (oh, look, another one :p ) with a benefit to Camps. Algonquian peoples were also present in the region, like the Abenaki at Odanak. It would be lovely to be able to represent the Beothuk (much further east of the area we're talking about, of course); it could be Religious, could be called Boyd's Cove for lack of native village names, and could have it give Faith from Quarries (representing the Beothuk of ochre).

There is also a large hole left in the American Southeast, there will not be much filling it specially if Moundville is replaced, I'm thinking that adding a Creek, Shawnee or maybe Chickataw town would help here.
I can help with that. I originally suggested Chickamauga, a Cherokee site in the Appalachians, as a Militarist city-state; Tokepahce/Tuckabatchee, one of the main Creek towns, would be ideal as a Commercial city-state (I know--another one :p ). The Choctaw Nanih Waiya could be a Religious city-state, and +1 for Mississippian representation.

The Caribbean is also unfortunately empty as I haven't been able to find much on Carib settlements at all.
You probably won't find much there; what you want is Taíno settlements. The most likely one is already in the game, though: Caguana.

Additionally a lot of City States of the same type are geographically close to eachother, for example Prophetstown is very close to Fort Ancient and Onondaga is to Ossossane which isn't a huge problem but is fairly noticeable.
Population density tended to cluster in Mesoamerica, along the Mississippi, in the Northeast, in the Northwest, and (historically) in the Southwest so that's not surprising. If it helps, Fort Ancient is almost certainly the point of origin for the Shawnee so either that or Prophetstown could be considered "Shawnee" or "proto-Shawnee" representation.

There's also the Seminole.
Being fugitives and literally living in a swamp, the Seminoles didn't really maintain much in the way of permanent villages until Indian removal.
 

BuchiTaton

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I'm really not very knowledgeable about Mesoamerica so thank you for all these suggestions! If I may ask you something, what Mesoamerican City do you think would make a good Scientific CS apart from Mitla? I'd like to add at least 1 new Scientific City State from Mesoamerica with my mod and don't know which one would be the best option for this.
Maya, Zapotec and Olmec were the ones who innovated with their writing systems, maya had the best mathematics, also Maya, Zapotec and Totonac had observatories (both Cempoala and El Tajin had astronomical elements). Purepecha could be considerate by their metallurgy and Toltecs if we decide to use the supposed "King Quetzalcoatl" inventions but those are just a mythical attribution.

If you want to use the Sciene focus for a Totonac city (for example El Tajin had the "Pirámide de los Nichos") then the Xicalanca city of Cacaxtla could be the trade themed city.
 

Queen Theophania

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Maya, Zapotec and Olmec were the ones who innovated with their writing systems, maya had the best mathematics, also Maya, Zapotec and Totonac had observatories (both Cempoala and El Tajin had astronomical elements). Purepecha could be considerate by their metallurgy and Toltecs if we decide to use the supposed "King Quetzalcoatl" inventions but those are just a mythical attribution.

If you want to use the Sciene focus for a Totonac city (for example El Tajin had the "Pirámide de los Nichos") then the Xicalanca city of Cacaxtla could be the trade themed city.

I hope I'm not being annoying by asking so many questions but do you think that Cempoala makes for a good Scientific CS?
 

Queen Theophania

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
Messages
28
If it helps, Fort Ancient is almost certainly the point of origin for the Shawnee so either that or Prophetstown could be considered "Shawnee" or "proto-Shawnee" representation.

Do you think that maybe Fort Ancient could be replaced by something like Poverty Point? It would represent the area in the central Southeast and keep the same suzerain bonus (though by making it kind of anachronistic)

EDIT: I was also thinking of maybe adding Poverty Point when initially brainstorming the CS concepts, so maybe it could have the effigy mounds improvement and it would provide science instead? (I'm not particularly enthusiastic about the idea but it's still feasible)
 
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