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A Few Mid Game Fighting Strategies

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Kev, Nov 2, 2001.

  1. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

    Joined:
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    OK, an update on my plodding game on Warlord level.

    After years and years of peaceful existence on my home continent (with the Iriquois, Aztecs, Zuls, and Persians) my American civ discovered the unmolested Babylonians on their own continent. I decided to place some cities in the unsettled northern portion of the Babylonian continent - figuring to use this group as a base of operations and to stop the fungus-like Babylonians from expanding further (they had about 15 cities at this point).

    RIGHT AWAY, the Babylonians sent a bunch of units right up to Albuquerque and when I politely asked them to leave, they declared war and just plain took it. My first war was under way.

    As I began to mobilize my ships and units to send over, the darned Aztecs declared war on my home continent. All of a sudden I had my hands full at home.

    Here are some thoughts that I came away with:

    Don't Settle Without a Good Military!

    You'd think I would have learned by watching the AI do this. I never see a settler running around without some sort of escort. This is very, very important if you are trying to do this on a new continent. The new city will not be able to get your homeland's resources until a harbor or airport is built, so they may have issues building more modern units right away. Further, wonders like the Pyramids, Sun Tzu's, etc actually ONLY affect cities on the same continent. Your new city will not benefit from these!

    UPGRADE Those Units!

    Still haven't cleared Civ2 out of my brain. Leo's Workshop does not upgrade everything for you, it only lessens the cost. I was caught with my pants down militarily as the Aztecs began to take some cities that were poorly defended by pikemen, swordmen and even warriors. Remember you need a barracks as well to do this, so be sure you get upgrading done as soon as a new unit becomes available.

    And here's a tip: my warriors only upgrade to swordmen so far. Fine in numbers, but if you have a lone swordman defending a city, kiss it goodbye. Spearmen will upgrade to musketmen, which is a MUCH better defender obviously. My thought: after building a city, it may make better sense to build a spearman as your first unit rather than a warrior (assuming you have bronze working). It is a better defender early on, and upgrading to the musketmen rather than the swordmen is key.

    Keep in mind as well that upgrading a unit counts as its turn. I had a situation where there was a bowman outside my city that had a knight in it. I decided to upgrade to cavalry, but because of this I did not have the opportunity to attack after that. It would have been better to kill the low-defense, high-attack bowman and THEN upgrade later.

    Sun Tzu's is a Nice Wonder!

    Having barracks in every city on my continent was extrememly helpful. In Civ2, it was nice if you were planning on a ton of military action, but not really necessary as the AI was such a spaz when it came to war.

    In Civ3, barracks are very important - actually necessary if you wish to upgrade any units. Without Sun Tzu's, I would have had to upgrade my units in cities with barracks, send them to outlying cities and then send the other cities' older units back to the cities with barracks for more upgrading. Having Sun Tzu's was the only thing that saved me as I was negligent about upgrading to begin with.

    Defend the Resource Cities!

    I had a problem when the Aztecs came to town in that they very quickly took two border cities that were my source of horses. Immediately, my abillity to produce cavalry was unavailble and that slowed my attack a great deal. In turn, all of a sudden the Aztecs had horsemen to put into the field, and that was a hassle.

    Don't wait for high culture to help you out

    I thought for sure that the cities taken by the Aztecs would revolt back to my own, high-culture civ right away. In fact, some did, but it took a bit of time for this to happen. In the mean time, the Aztecs were using these cities as staging points and it really annoyed me. Easier for me to just take them back when I was ready.

    Fast Units

    Cavalry and Knights were great to use. One no longer can defeat 3 units by attacking an enemy stack, so the attack and retreat option is very useful. I could have a cavalry unit leave a city, attack a stack that was waiting outside, and then retreat back to the city if necessary. In this way my defending musketmen were dealing with much weaker units.

    Also, I've finally figured out that when a unit crosses national borders, it counts as a full movement point - even if you're on a road. This was annoying when trying to attack with swordmen or longbowmen as they stopped just as they entered the Aztec borders. Cavalry, however, with their 3 movement could start from a home city, cross the border, and then still attack. Very important.

    Cannons and Catapults

    My experience with both of these units was very limited, and I wasn't really sure how to utilize them. Then, an Aztec unit attacked one of my cities that had two cannons in it. Both cannons were able to fire at the attacker before any battle ensued, and my musketmen all of a sudden was defending against a seriously weakened opponent! I'm not sure how they may work on offense, but this worked rather nicely.

    Possible Stacking

    IN Civ2, rarely did I stack units together unless in a fortress or I was trying to get a catapult or cannon near a city with a rifleman or something. Now, when attacked the whole stack will NOT perish, and this could open up some strategies. I did not have a chance to use this too much yet (as the Aztecs were beaten back, lost some cities, and finally sued for peace), but a few musketmen and cannons combined with longbowmen and cavalry could make a very deadly stack to move about with. The cavalry could run off to kill or weaken a distant unit and still be able to retreat back to the stack. Also, next to a city this stack can put some attacking to use while still defending well. I'll have to try this.

    On a new continent

    As I said, colonizing a new continent - especially one that's occupied - can be a difficlut proposition. Here's what I think you should have:
    - a settler (duh)
    - 1-2 workers
    - 2-3 very good defenders
    - a fair amount of cash

    First thing I did when I finally took a Babylonian city and decided to keep in was build a harbor. Being in a peaceful Democracy for so long, I had built up some cash so the harbor was rush built (you can rush build with cash in democracy). This allowed this new city to build with the resources of my home continent (I had harbors in other cities on my home continent as well) as well as benefit from the happiness items from there as well. The next thing that I rush built was walls and then barracks for future upgrades (Sun Tzu's has no effect on this city). Finally, building a temple and library began to increase it's culture. I was afraid that the huge Bablyonian empire might absorb it given its size and likely decent culture of its own.

    After that, I built roads to and through resources and luxuries. Later cities I put down took from these and also benefited from the home continent items as they were connected to the harbor city with roads. I am now making a better effort at establishing myself, and ended the war by giving the Babylonians Math.

    -War Weariness

    In my democracy, war weariness hit me hard after several years of war. It took the form of cities going into revolt, and this occured in some cities even with luxuries bumped up to 50%!

    The good part here is that you can have a few cities in disorder without going into total anarchy - even in a democracy.

    The bad part is that a city that revolts for too long can see mob violence. I had a city that gave me the message "an angry mob as destroyed the temple". It was so quick, but I just caught it. I knew then that I better get to peacetime quick or go with another government type.

    I thougth it better to stay in democracy, however rather than have all those turns of anarchy (perhaps different with a religious civ). Once I had peace, RIGHT AWAY every city was back to happy.

    Miscellaneous Notes

    - When a city is taken, only gold can be plundered. No more taking tech. This is nice when you're ahead in tech as it won't allow a few quickly taken and then returned cities to result in a civ catching you on the tech front. Conversely, it won't allow YOU to catch up in tech via military.
    - In diplomacy with the Aztecs, I was laying a beating on them finally, but war weariness was killing my empire. I told Montezuma something along the lines of "I am nearing your cities so you better give up." and he said he'd never give up. I then went into the diplomacy screen and offered peace for peace and they accepted! I'm guessing that this may be the best way to sue for peace.
    - Haven't tried out too much along the lines of ship bombardment. I am just about to discover steam engine so maybe my next offering will include ironclad battles.

    Well, I've rambled again. I hope SOMEbody finds this all helpful.
     
    youngsteve likes this.
  2. Big_JLD

    Big_JLD Chieftain

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    Hey, that's a great post and very helpful to me. I tried the Tutorial, but it started me as the Romans and I got very war-happy very quickly and overextended myself with Legionaries. It wasn't until I had conquered the Greeks and Germans that I encountered the French with their Horsemen. They took me apart by capturing my workers (still in Civ2 thinking, not really guarding the workers) and cutting off my most recent conquests.

    I agree completely that guarding the workers is imperative if they're working near your borders.

    I'm learning, not quickly, but learning.
     
  3. Libertarian

    Libertarian Pansophist

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    Me too, Kev. Very helpful indeed. Thanks.
     
  4. Diety

    Diety Chieftain

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    Nice post.

    About the mobbing.
    My tactic has always been that once there's a revolt, I fix it immediatly.

    About the new continent thing.
    I don't go to new continents, except to build a city on a luxury pile (and to finish kill, ofcours). So I don't need workers, only 2-3 defenders and a settler.
    I gues you could build a colony instead of a city, but I read (didn't try) that you loose them to other cities with culture, so...
     
  5. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

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    I'm glad some people found it helpful. I'll try to post again for stuff later in the game.

    Diety: (I wonder if you meant to name yourself Deity :))

    With regular revolts, I am also quick to quelch them - by entertainers or by luxury if necessary. However, in a war-weary democracy things can apparently get bad pretty quickly. With 50% luxuries, I still had some cities with 10 unhappy and 4 content workers. I quickly saw that to have enough entertainers to fix things I would be in a HUGE starvation situation and no production anyway. I thought it better to absorb the loss of an improvement at that time and build it back when peace strikes again.

    Also - about new continents. My strategy with placing myself on the Babylonian's continent was to establish a presence there. One lone city to fend for itself was asking for trouble, I thought. I needed workers to make roads between all of the cities that I would eventually create. In this way, only one city would need to have a harbor to make use of my home continent items - the rest will get them via the roads I've created. Also in this way, I was able to settle new cities near items like incense and gems which I did not have before. Having roads to the harbor city meant that now these items were connnected to my capital and therefore usable as luxuries and trade throughout.

    It becomes paramount in this case to protect the harbor city, but I thought it better than having to expend shields and/or cash to build another harbor.
     
  6. Oz!

    Oz! Chieftain

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    Here is some more tips and comments on Kev's post.

    First deffinetly have 2 units with your new settler. I would recommand a spearman and a horsman or chariot.

    Spearmans are great. You are going to be able to upgrade spearmans to pikemans then to musket man then to riflemans and then to infantry. I assume you can later on make them into Mechanized infatry but never got to that point.



    Cannons are good to have. In the city they will bomb on every unit that goes to attack and will criple them. In offence if you press B you can soften the target before you attack.
    You can upgrade catapults to cannons to artilery :goodjob:

    Wonders the best early wonders are Piramid, Oracle, and Sun Tzu's academy. For me the lighthouse is useless and Great Library is ok if you have a lot of contacts but usually u can always trade all the techs and the time it takes me to bild the piramd and oracle and the time GL is finished the Eduacation tech neutrilize the effect. Collosus on the other had is good for commerce so if you have nothing else to bild my recommandation is eather Colossus or Hanging Garderns. Later on they add culture so its all good :cool:

    Nukes :nuke: are a big disapointment to me. First the resourse uranium is usually scarce and my first game noone had it so i could not even trade for it. The second game the moment i nuke on civ for fun to see how it works :rolleyes: everyone declare war on you and the special effect (sound and animation) were not that great. I loved the sound of the sirens in civ2 :D
    But on the other hand u need 2 for a city of size 12 or 3-4 for size of 24 :goodjob: just a FYI :D

    Trade and treaty's

    Well be carefull when u sign a mutuall protection treaty couse if the civ is militaristic they will sooner or later attack someone and you will have to go to war. I remember only one civ had to attack another and the hole world was at war since all of them had treatys between them so it was chain reaction. Plus no trade when u at war with a civ of course ;)
    Trade is great if the opponent has anything to trade. And one of the most important resourses that are hard to find is coal (at least for me in my first game) and without it no railroad :( but with trade got it from the French :p
    Almost every game you will have something that is missing. If you lucky it wont be as strategic as coal or aluminium but it adds a new flavor to the game.
    Also if u see a risourse in no-mans land make a road to it and build a colony and u will have it. But if another civ occupy's it by expanding borders you will lose the colony and the worker and the resourse.

    I found it exterly hard to get a leader but i don't fight too much and i never used a militaristic civ. But I bet its excremly usefull. So if you are a warrior type then aim to get one of those.

    Oz
     
  7. the_gasman

    the_gasman Chieftain

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    Cannons are very useful offensively.

    First identify a suitable city that you want to cupture, with a mountain next to it.
    Then sent a cannon, a musket man, and a worker to it. Be careful to keep them all together so the cannon can't be captured. Fortify the musket man on the mountain, get the worker to build a fortress in case it's a long job, and set about bombarding the city turn after turn, until you can just walk in and take it with one unit.
     
  8. Jezner

    Jezner Warlord

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    I was using guerilla warfare tactics with my knights and catapaults. I put both my knight and catapault in a jungle square outside a city, and just bombed anyone coming or going to it. If anyone stopped outside my jungle sanctuary, I sent my Knight to squash them, then ran back to the jungle. Eventually, they'd mount an assault, but the jungle hyped up my d-fens and I was able to hold off the attackers. It worked wonderfully.
     
  9. Diety

    Diety Chieftain

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    Conquer the world without nukes will be a very looooooong job !
    Get the uranium, make 20-25 nukes and go for it, I'd say...

    The downside is that *everyone* declares war on you, but you know how to react to that, don't you ? Right, with nukes !


    ------------------------------------
    Nuke the wales !!
     
  10. Oz!

    Oz! Chieftain

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    What is the effect on the ppl when u nuke everybody when u r in democracy?
    Do u switch to a comi?

    If so those 3 turns to wait for the switch are hard on the ppl.

    hehe maybe i love my ppl too much
     

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