This is a discussion of the relative strength and interactions between Heroic Epic, Great Wall, St Basil’s Cathedral, and Brandenburg Gate Spoiler “But FruitBoy, what do these wonders even do?” : Heroic epic Unlocked early classical 1 A free Great General Writing slot Morale promotion (+10% CS for units built in this city) Great Wall Unlocked late classical 1 1 GEngineer points 3 flat supply cap Free wall 15 defense for city +50 city HP Reduced empire needs modifier by 5%Free GGeneral Enemy Units entering your borders lose all movement pointsCathedral of St basil Unlocked late medieval Must be in a holy city +34 -5% population needed to reform your religion Free Order 10 city defense 3, scaling with era, when you kill a unit 15XP to units trained in this city morale promotion (+10% CS for units built in this city) Brandenburg Gate Unlocked late Industrial 1 2GMerchant points 10 flat supply cap Free Great General 15 XP for units trained in this city -1 distress in this city “So what are your thoughts on these wonders, AnanasLad?" Spoiler Heroic Epic : So, first off, with the addition of free Great Generals to the heroic epic, there’s a lot of free generals floating around. In a standard game if 8 civs, that’s 10 free great generals. Now obviously this is a grand conspiracy to keep Great Admirals down, but in addition to that, I have concerns with how 2 civs have complete control over a triggering of their UA. For Japan, the issue is less serious. It is unlikely a player will delay their Epic until Artist/Musician guilds are up, but a player can time their General’s birth to happen after the next GWriter so they get more GPPs. With Sweden, the ability to have an extra free, global heal that you can time with impunity is very potent. This is why Sweden is so dangerous in Industrial, but this moves the Swedish power spike forward a bit. it’s also worth noting just how early this bonus is. The Heroic Epic is available to most civs before all but the most bellicose civs could have generated a GGeneral through combat. It seems strange that civs would all have birthed a great military mind when all they have done up to this point is snuffed out a few hill tribes. Mongolia in particular can spawn a free Khan while they might still be barb hunting, and that medic bonus getting leveled against your first target civ, with zero windup can feel pretty uncalled for. Some possible changes to the Heroic Epic that I think would improve it in some way: Could have a max of 3 on Empire, like Guilds. Currently, the bottleneck of having only 1 Morale city for stronger military unit production can feel quite restrictive. Obviously the Free GGeneral would need to be dropped then. Could give 1 GWriter Point in City. It seems weird that this building doesn't contribute to any GW production, given what they are supposedly meant to represent. Could move the Heroic Epic to a later tech. Maybe Chivalry? This would address the timing issue with the Free GGeneral. It seems very strange that the wonder is so early, given what it is supposed to represent: A heroic myth from which national identity can be derived. Most of the examples given in the Civilopedia text either never contributed to the basis for a national identity (Odyssey, Gilgamesh), or didn't exist until much later than Classical Antiquity (Beowulf) Spoiler Great Wall : Great Wall - The movement penalty on this wonder makes it one of the most potent wonders in the game. It is also wonderfully unique. I do have some quibbles with the rest of it though. if it is determined that the GGeneral on Hepic is here to stay, then a 2nd free GGeneral in the same era is overkill. The free wall is also pretty weird. Walls are unlocked a full era earlier than the GWall. This makes a weird incentive for players, because they can get a maintenance-free wall if they don’t build a wall and hold out. Failing that, they can sell their existing wall before GWall is finished in a city so they can enjoy the lower building maintenance. Leaving a city, a high production city able to compete for GWall no less, undefended is pretty much suicide, so it’s weird to have this free wall where none but the most daring will get the full use of it. Maybe the GWall could give a local % defence boost in the city, or a weaker version of Himeji’s global % boost to city defense, or maybe it could just boost walls some other way. Spoiler St. Basil's Cathedral : Hoo Boy. So the long and the short is that the order should be dropped from this wonder. By itself, that free order makes St. Basil's a top-tier wonder, even if a player has already reformed. I would say that Orders are probably balanced as a belief, but having only 1 Order on Empire is like 50% of the benefit of having Orders in ALL your cities. Assuming you didn't get orders as a belief: That 15XP undercuts the Brandenburg gate, who would otherwise be the only wonder giving extra XP. It gives the same amount, no less, AND Morale, and it's 2 eras earlier than Brandenburg. The 10 is like a tiny Red Fort, undercutting that wonder by increasing your city's defense cap The City can basically function as a second Heroic Epic city, which incentivizes you to put the Heroic Epic in a secondary city if you are gunning for Basil's. You functionally double your ability to minmax cities for military production by adding a second source of Morale Boosts On top of that, the base yields on St. Basils are very respectable. Last thing is, the Order is just a very silly thing to put on St. Basil's Cathedral. The Cathedral was consecrated in 1561, and didn't complete construction until 1588. The 9th crusade was in 1272, and that's a major bookend to crusader history. Did any Slavs ever actually do a crusade? In fact, weren't the Slavs on the Receiving end of a crusade??? Spoiler Brandenburg Gate : So this wonder is maybe not the worst in it's current form, but it doesn't have much going for it either. Let's start with the Supply cap bonus, since that's the best part of this wonder, and the biggest reason to build it. 10 supply is a pretty strong boost, but the fact that the best part of this wonder is just a relatively larger version of a bonus given by 5 other wonders is not great, and it demonstrates the problem with Brandenburg: It's not special. The 15 XP bonus is weak. Compare that to the free Order (15XP) from St. Basil's, unlocked 2 eras earlier, or the Military Academy (25XP), unlocked on the same tech, or the Assyrian Royal Library (up to 45XP on Empire). Brandenburg's XP bonus just doesn't stack up -- not for a late Industrial World Wonder, at least. Then there's the Free Great General. As with the GWall, my opinion is that 3 different buildings giving the same bonus is too much. Industrial era seems like a great place for a second GGeneral to appear, spaced out from the other 2 in classical, so I would rather see the GGeneral dropped from 1 of the other 2 buildings. For possible changes for this building, I've actually got a whole list: Give the BBurg a free Military Academy Increase the BBurg's bonus XP to 25 or 30 Make the BBurg give its bonus XP Globally Instead of the BBurg Gate giving bonus XP to all units trained, it could give either flat bonus XP to all purchased/faith purchased units on Empire, or it could reduce the XP penalty for purchasing purchasing units to 3/4 of max XP for purchased units. This would also serve as an excuse to reduce the Volunteer Army Freedom tenet to give another 25% reduction in XP loss. the tenet completely eliminates the XP reduction currently, and is reeeeeeeally good right now, and could stand to be nerfed. BBurg Gate could give a bonus for every Great General/Admiral born on empire, though if you gave that bonus it would probably be fitting to make it either the Imperialism or Authority Finisher, since they can Faith buy the instant boost.