[BTS] A good start ?

[Fippy]

Take it easy BIC
Me (and my Phoenixes) love sgotm for that reason, we often discover new ways and mechanics.
I like reading about your games. I also agree it's a very solid starting posi.

 

[shakabrade]

T50 settling 2E

Spoiler :

2 cities, 2 granaries, 3 warriors, 2 workers, one WB heading for gold but will not really time right because I made roads instead of chop chop. I did not move warriors carefully but could have as I had enough of them. If some animal ate my settler now it would be a shame.

 

[Pangaea]

Maybe this thought it just a "double error", but I do wonder about settling 1W. Shame about losing a turn and the 3H EXP-hill, but it also feels wrong to settle the capital in the "wrong" direction, on the tip of a land tongue like this. I really dislike 'killing' green hills, though But maybe it's a decent option here, as it allows a city on the PH east, while not having the capital stuck over in the corner like that?

 

[Pangaea]

How do you change the difficulty of a map at 4000 BC? If I play this map, how do I change it from Prince to Immortal for example?

That was a really strange file, and apparently ALL victory types were disabled? Only score was listed in the Victory window

Anyway, I did some changes and think it should now be playable on all difficulties, like a Nobles club game. Haven't added starting techs, but the rest should be fine. I tested it, and it works to start on Immortal, and all victory types are now enabled.

Gonna try out the first 50-100 turns on Immortal. That means different development to the shadows posted above, so perhaps the gold spot will be taken early.

The game must be started as a Scenario.

 

[Pangaea]

Here is my 50-turn shadow on Immortal. Not directly comparable, perhaps, but I'm not that far off the pace.

Spoiler :

Opened with Mining->BW->Wheel->Pottery->Sailing after settling 1W. Means I've skipped Agri for now. Lined up Writing for better trade routes and to start to build relations. Originally figured to put city 3 by the wheat, but upon seeing Khmer borders by the fish-gold, settler 3 should go up there. Means the workboat is headed there now, instead of netting the fish once capital borders expand next turn. Despite early Pottery, I've not had time for granaries yet, but city 2 has started it, and there are some hammers into it the capital as well. Two workers on the forests, so may opt for slow building that settler with two chops instead of growing to 4 and 2-popping it. Happened to get nice overflow this turn because the worker had 59/60 last turn. Definitely no guarantee of getting to the gold first here, but it should at least be tried. It's a nice spot, especially with copper over there as well.

 

[shakabrade]

@BornInCantaloup More like 25 minutes as I dont civ anymore. What is your tech situation?
I got Mining, BW, Wheel, Agri, Pottery, AH, started Writing, 15g in the bank.

 

[shakabrade]

@BornInCantaloup
Yup, sameish. I cannot say I thought about the tech much, but if this was deity, I'd go for Writing for sooner OB bonus and for sooner GPP generation and then Sailing. On whatever difficulty this was, Sailing is a good choice. But it would be much better with higher happy cap. Although I went for the gold site as 3rd for a benchmark, I think it makes sense to raise the happy cap ASAP with this much food, even if it is far away.
About 2nd city not being 1W. I really think that sharing 2 strong and improved tiles from the capital beats it hands down for early micro flexibility. Additionally, one of these 2 cities will be a GPP farm and will also have periods of starvation during GA. A shame would be not to have the other city taking the top tier food tiles. It also makes Barcelona a stronger GPP farm as you'll get those 2nd ring crabs in time, no worries.
Now I put explanations here like it was conscious decision. In reality, it is all automated decision making.

 

[drewisfat]

Is it not playable in deity? I know about WB/scenario/barb techs but this still doesn't recreate the 2nd settler. I also know I'm pretty dumb dumb at that sorta stuff though, since I've never even got the HoF mod to work. But 2 settlers would obviously have a huge effect in how quickly the gold/fish spot goes to Khmer. Regardless of if that is a solid reason, it's not one you could divine at t0. I get the idea of moving closer inland - all else even that's the way to play peninsular starts. But in this case, I feel like it's safer to assume you will get cut off from leaving your peninsula, and I'd rather have the extra city to break out of such a situation. With coastal commerce but low cottage potential, and Izzy, the second I see horses I would have tunnelvisioned on HAs. I'm very confident in rushing Inca with 3 good cities. Building another settler / wb + moving them all the way over there (and not teching HBR) exposes me to a lot of risk if I lost the city spot at the last second.

I can see the pros of building the 2nd city 1 tile further west. Given my assumption of an early rush (and especially the revelation of the horse tile) building where Shakra did seems obvious. But if I wanted a more long-term 6 city empire I would have been tempted. Don't have to monument for the crabs. The city takes up the worst tile available instead of a nice riverside hill. And giving that city two hills that could be mined instead of 1 hill after border pop. But in early rushes whip is king not mines.

I'm actually not entirely sold on early sailing. I'd like roads anyway for an early attack. Lighthouse & granary may be overkill early, and we're already EXP for granary.

 

[Pangaea]

Is it not playable in deity? I know about WB/scenario/barb techs but this still doesn't recreate the 2nd settler. I also know I'm pretty dumb dumb at that sorta stuff though, since I've never even got the HoF mod to work. But 2 settlers would obviously have a huge effect in how quickly the gold/fish spot goes to Khmer. Regardless of if that is a solid reason, it's not one you could divine at t0.

Late post here so maybe you have moved on, but check out this post.

Correct starting techs would have to be added manually, but the rest is fine. Impossible to fix starting techs without a save file for each difficulty unfortunately. It's the same deal for Nobles Club games.

 

[soundjata]

Someone needs to be freed from serfdom... Alakazam ! Shaka you're free
More on that day here.

On topic,
Prophet Sossos once spoke to the fanatics assembled : "Moving the settler inland is statistically correct"
When Tachywaxon discovered the scripture a few years later she was in awe.
The RNG gives and the RNG takes.
How do you deal with uncertainty? How much risk are you willing to take?

A brown hill is a given. A lost fish is lost but Ah, the mysteries lying beyond...

 

[shakabrade]

@soundjata

Yeah, working on getting free.

I would also say that moving inland can be ok if the start is really bad. And I would say it is better if you have a scout to make a more informed decision. I would like to see that post of sossos. It is a bit in the vacuum saying that moving inland is generally better. If you leave the good start and lose some 2-4 turns and find even better place to make up for those turns lost and that happens more frequent than not then it is very far from my experience.

 

[soundjata]

Here you go @shakabrade. 8 years ago, a breeze.

Even if you will not be blocked on this map, it is still statistically correct to settle 7 tiles away instead of at the corner.

Hope @sossos does not mind me quoting him wildly. Seems he's unsubcribed or something...

 

[soundjata]

This trick will be bookmarked in my mind from now on

it is very far from my experience.