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A great game is NOT when there's nothing left to add, but nothing left to take out!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by NobleJms, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. NobleJms

    NobleJms Chieftain

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    Guys, I couldn't help but post this quote straight from one of Civ V's technology quotes, forgot which technology it was, but it said something like,

    "A designer knows he has reached perfection not when there's nothing left to add, but nothing left to take out"


    I think the vanilla Civ V game was built on this philosophy, while Civ IV was the other way around. :)
     
  2. Flavorable

    Flavorable Chieftain

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    Totally agreed. When what's left is so integral and dynamic and important that its impossible to take anything else out, that's true game design. Any more elements that are added need to be as dynamic as what's already there.
     
  3. Doskias51

    Doskias51 Chieftain

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    I couldn't totally agree more. I believe they gave us the community a base so we had all the room to our hearts content. They gave us the clay and we are here to mold it and make it our own.
     
  4. GreyIago

    GreyIago Chieftain

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    I have to agree. CivV is a solid product, but it's very liquid. They can do a number of things in terms of expansions and modders can just go crazy with it.
     
  5. Bigend

    Bigend Chieftain

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    By that logic a blank disc is the ultimate game.

    I think this quote applies when designing certain technical objects, you want the design to be as simple and reliable as possible. Or in art as essential. But a game like Civ is part simulation, and simulations should include as many of the key elements of the thing being simulated as practicable.

    So what have been the key elements in human civilization? If you were writing a book on civilization what would the chapter titles be?
     
  6. ahmedhadzi

    ahmedhadzi Relocation Consultant

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    I could disagree with OP, CIV Rev was simpler game so hence better.

    I mean seriously guys, if you think this game is perfect I can't but wonder what will you be saying when civ VI comes out.

    And will you buy expansions which add more features which will be released sooner or later?
     
  7. Gustave5436

    Gustave5436 Chieftain

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    Ironically (considering your point), it's the quote for Engineering in civ4.
     
  8. Flavorable

    Flavorable Chieftain

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    I think it refers more to the fact that no element of this game is tacked on, which goes directly against the underlying philosophy of Civ IV.
     
  9. Bigend

    Bigend Chieftain

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    I think it's about not having elements in the design that do nothing, regardless of whether they were there originally or added later.

    And in Civ V it seems there are plenty of ultimately inconsequential design elements. People on this very board talk about how they can safely ignore happiness and other things that should matter when simulating civilization, and win Command and Conquer style.
     
  10. bernlin2000

    bernlin2000 Chieftain

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    With the corollary that you shouldn't take things out that make the game a more enjoyable experience :) That's when things get tougher....
     
  11. Flavorable

    Flavorable Chieftain

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    What? Happiness is essential to growth, which is essential to science, which is essential to military, which is essential to...
     
  12. Bigend

    Bigend Chieftain

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    But according to this guy you can just focus on money and buy everything else
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=383032
     
  13. Flavorable

    Flavorable Chieftain

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    That's kinda :):):):):):):):), reading through, how did he get so much money when most buildings cost 500-800? and how did he maintain science? The real issue there is that the AI is stupid and minor economic elements need to be refined.
     
  14. Bast

    Bast Protector of Cats

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    Oh god, I thought it was Engineering. Clearly, that's a sign that I played Civ IV too much!
     
  15. snoochems

    snoochems Chieftain

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    This.

    I'm really enjoying Civ, but to think they took a lot of stuff out to "perfect" it is just dumb.

    Have no doubt that the bean counters at Firaxis had a say in what was included in the vanilla game, and what they would charge extra for in terms of DLC and xpacs.
     
  16. aguds

    aguds Chieftain

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    derp?
     
  17. Vladesch

    Vladesch Chieftain

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    The quote has an implicit assumption....

    A designer knows he has reached perfection not when there's nothing left to add, but nothing left to take out, while retaining the same funtionality
     
  18. troytheface

    troytheface Chieftain

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    Fact- People tend to like customizing and personalizing things in vid games

    Fact- They should have it where you can customize a civ, a unit, a leader


    the evidence is clear- Perfection is but for attacko
     
  19. Hailas

    Hailas Chieftain

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    If a game satisfies all your expectations - how many times are you going to play it?

    With Civilization it was always like this: I would add this or that, and that's what people did. That's why it's such a great game. It allows creative approach instead of perfect but dogmatic consumption and quick fall into oblivion.
     

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