A guide for UHV India 1.17

[Rojo.Sg]

Hi! I've just won an UHV with India after a few tries in Regent difficulty. I found it somewhat difficult, so I've written this guide with some advice. I hope you find it useful.

1) Control Vishwanath and the Mahabodhi in 100 BC (Turn 131).

The first objective is relatively easy. I founded Pataliputra on the spot and started building an Hindu Mandir. Once you finish the temple, Buddhism is founded (most likely in Indraprastha or another city). Start employing a Priest in Pataliputra, spread Buddhism to Pataliputra, build a Buddhist Stupa as soon as possible and employ a second Priest.
Once you have generated a Great Prophet and built Vishwanath, you can add three additional Priests in Pataliputra and get the second Great Prophet in time in order to build the Mahabodhi.

I recommend chopping the forest and building a mine in the hill 2W and 1 N to Pataliputra and on the hill 2 S and 1 W, so you can speed up the construction of both temples.
Also, adopt Buddhism as state religion as soon as it is founded and switch to both Caste System and Clergy in the same turn once you have researched the necessary techs. The reason to adopt Buddhism and not Hinduism as state religion is because the former spreads faster across India and also because it's more likely that neighbouring Civs will adopt it at least for a while (eg. China, Turkestan). You can temporarily adopt Hinduism for free in the first turns for more culture generation in Pataliputra.

The second Great Prophet takes about 16 turns to be generated, so aim to build the Vishwanath before turn 114 or 115.

2) Control 20 temples by 700 AD (Turn 191)

I think that the most straightforward to accomplish this goal is to control 10 cities in India and build an Hindu Mandir and a Buddhist Stupa in each one.

I recommend you build Lavapuri (on the Harappan capital ruins) and Thatta (on the Indus river mouth) early on in order to block Persian expansion.
I founded Nagpur one tile SE of the Iron as my fifth city.
Mumbai and Kolkatta came next, in the Arabian Sea and in the Bengala Bay respectively. These are low production cities, with an average of 5 hammers per turn. The Hindu Mandir and the Buddhist Stupa cost 88 hammers each, so you should found the last of these cities no later than turn 156 in order to build the temples in time.

You have to conquer the last three cities from the Tamils. Luckily, they have medium-to-large production so you can build the Temples in these cities with ease. An army of four or five Swordsmen and a Catapult is more than enough to take the southern Indian cities.
The most difficult part is to conquer Anuradhapura in Sri Lanka because they usually keep a navy of three War Galleys in the city that can easily repel your invasion if you only build 1-2 Galleys.
I recommend that you start building a navy in Thatta early on so you can outnumber the Tamil navy. 2-3 galleys and maybe 1-2 War Galleys should be enough. The lone Archer that the Tamils keep in Anuradhapura will be no match to your Amphibious-attacking Swordsmen.

I also conquered Pagan in modern day Myanmar after finishing with the last Tamil cities but I didn't manage to build any Temple on time in this city.

An empire of 10-11 cities is hard to sustain economically. Focus on building up your infraestructure in the early part of the game. Have 6-8 Workers active at all time. Build Markets in Pataliputra and Indraprastha (Dilli) as soon as you can and then in your other cities. Try to get an Open Borders agreement with Persia and China and with Turkestan later on for trade routes. Adopt Merchant Trade for more Trade Routes and Citizenship for faster building Markets, Aqueducts, etc. Build Cottages on the Ganges and Indus flood plains, if you need more food in the late game you can replace them with Farms but it is usually not necessary if you manage to build Duyiangyiang in one of your main cities. Build Edicts and Jails to reduce city maintenance costs (but Markets are more useful).
If you follow this recommendations, you should be able to keep your economy on float with 30-40% research rate.

Also, your "high" production cities (Pataliputra, Dilli, Lavapuri, Nagpur) should focus on training Settlers, Workers and military units first and building other basic constructions like Barracks and Granary. Put off the Temples for later.

3) Control 20% of the world population in 1200 AD (Turn 241)

This is the hardest goal.
You need at least ten cities in India. I also conquered Pagan in modern Myanmar.
Build Granaries, Aqueducts, Baths and Pharmacies in all your cities in order to optimize health and growth. Smokehouses are also useful in the largest ones (Pataliputra and Dilli).
Build Harbors in coastal cities. Avoid building Forges.
You have an extra Iron that you can exchange with Byzantium for Wine (extra happiness and health with Pharmacies) and extra Wheat.

Useful Wonders:
- Duyiangyiang in Pataliputra or Dilli. Extra food from River Tiles. I know it's ahistorical because it was a Chinese wonder but, after all, it's only a game and it's supposed to have some counterfactual aspects. You're not emulating the things that India did historically, you're trying to accomplish the things that India could have done if certain political and economic conditions were met. Or a least that's the way I like to think about it.
- Prambanan.
- Khajuraho.
- Wat Preah Pisnulok. I suggest that you build this Wonder in the last turns, so you can allow each city to reach its "natural" growth limit and then give them an extra push.

Note: Prambanan and Wat Preah Pisnulok are also ahistorical because they were built in Indonesia and in Southeastern Asia respectively, however they are very useful and feel more historical . I didn't find other Wonders that are available to you (Borobodur and Shwedagon Paya) very useful.

In addition, you have to do some micromanagement in order to balance health and happiness in each one of your cities and help them to reach its maximum growth potential. Build Granaries, Markets and Pharmacies so even your least cultured cities can benefit from your resources.

I couldn't manage to take a screenshot of my game, but I had 24 population in Pataliputra and 22 in Dilli in the last turn. The rest of the cities had 12-15 pops except Lavapuri (which had 17) and Pagan (which had 7).
I think I had some luck because I wasn't strucked by the 400 AD plague in my game, but even if it does it's not a major disaster because you have time to recover later.
I managed to stay above 20% of world population in the last 40 turns or so. If you find that you're not above that number in the last 20 turns, you can try some extreme measures like founding extra cities in your historical area or conquering another city from weaker neighbours like Khmer, Tibet or Indonesia.

Additional tips:

- Tech research order and priorities: First, go for Arithmetics, Literature and Priesthood so you can adopt both Caste System and Clergy.
Then try to research Bloomery (for Iron), Seafaring and maybe Shipbuilding (so you can start building your navy in Thatta), Mathematics (for Catapults), Currency + Law (so you can adopt Merchant Trade and Citizenship, which are both good for your economy - also Markets), Civil Service (Khajuraho + Wat Preah Pisnulok), Nobility (Horse Archers), Alchemy (Pharmacies), Crop Rotation (more Farms in the late game).

- Army: Train Spearmen and Archers to defend your cities from Barbarians.
You will have constant Horseman and Horse Riders attacks in Northwestern India in the middle game that will probably destroy your infraestructure in that area once and again and there's nothing you can do about it. I suggest you wait until they attack your cities because they can easily defeat your Spearmen in open terrain (specially the Horse Archers) and then rebuild your infraestructure.
You will also have Barbarian Swordsmen in Southern India, I recommend you let them pillage your infraestructure and wait for them in your cities in the early game. Once you research Nobility and train an army of 3-4 Horse Archers they will no longer be a problem.
I didn't find the Indian Unique Units very useful in my game.
Persia is likely to declare war to you in turns 160-170, but in my experience they don't actually invade you.

Bottom line: I think the biggest challenges of playing with India are conquering the last Tamil city in Sri Lanka (and thus I can't overemphasize the importance of start building your navy early) and mananing your economy wisely so each city can grow to its maximum potential. It's overall a very fun experience with a focus on city building and development in a context of low production. Enjoy!

 

[banzay13]

Another way to build 20 temples - found Zorastrianism in Samarkand, take over Persia and also found Islam.

 

[Dracosolon]

Another way to build 20 temples - found Zorastrianism in Samarkand, take over Persia and also found Islam.

My strategy is to found Zoroastrianism in Kabul ASAP, convert to it and spread it in India. You have room to settle seven cities (plus a couple of extras later to work in-between tiles and get more temples) across your territory without even invading the Tamils, which you can do once the temple UHV is secure.

Your maintenance will be easier to manage, but the bigger advantage is that with a more concentrated territory your troops will have an easier time repositioning themselves against barbarian spawns.

 

[Lzz]

Great guide. I was able to use it to win my first UHV as India, so thanks! I would add three things that I discovered on my run:

1) Unlike your suggestion, I actually built Wat Preak Pisnulok as soon as possible. Pataliputra and Dilli can both run a ridiculous amount of priests and since with Wat each priest gives extra food, they can grow more and faster the sooner you build the Wat.

2) I built Iron Pillar in Dilli because extra production comes very useful when building all that infrastructure in the late game. The unhealthiness is offset by my final point. I also built Borobodur because free production with priests being employed in every single city and three additional priests slots (for the city with Dujiangyan) are nothing to sneeze at.

3) India's unique power converts extra happiness into health. So Forges, Weavers, Markets and Arenas all give extra health (Arenas even more so if you turn up the culture slider which I did after I discovered the last useful tech around 1000AD). And if you run out of buildings and still have spare production you can build the cheapest military units you can find and fortify them to further increase happiness via Monarchy.

 

[Osborneman]

I found that you don't really need to block Persian expansion. They don't really go west much, unless they annoyingly settle Kandahar up north (which you can't really block if they decide to do it regardless). They may found Gwadar as well just to the east of Thatta, but once the Turks invade and they collapse, Thatta will take all the useful tiles anyway.

Instead of going west first, I founded my first city to the east, beating the Chinese to the area. Chittagong 1S of the rice is an absolute powerhouse of a city once built up, with a ton of production from rainforest mines. It can pump workers immediately, plus build ships fairly quickly. Highly recommended. Then I went for Lavapuri, then Bhopal 1E of the iron. Then I went for Thatta and Calcutta afterward.

Tech-wise, I go for Priesthood first, it puts you in the classical era so that your settled cities start with 2 pop, a big boost. I also found that on monarch/normal you can go Hindu Mandir-Settler-Buddhist Stupa in Pataliputra and still complete UHV 1 on time.

Also, once the hill 2S 1W of Pataliputra is mined, I found that 1 archer fortified on that hill usually can hold off any barbs coming from the southeast. Don't forget that if you don't put improvements on rainforest tiles military units cannot pass through. So if you hold off on improving the banana SE of Patiliputra you can block barbs from coming up through the Calcutta area until you're ready to settle there.

 

[Harold the Saxon]

On the subject of converting state religion to Buddhism, I thought this could be a solid idea for diplomatic purposes — until I discovered that you can't build Nalanda University unless your state religion is Hindu! (This isn't very clearly indicated in the Civilopedia, which makes it look like either Buddhism or Hinduism will do.)

Nalanda University hasn't been mentioned in the thread so far, but it gives +2 Research from each Hindu religious building*. Since you are going to build about 8–10 Hindu Mandirs (depending on whether you get spread of any other religions), at least 1 Hindu Ashram for Missionary production, and the bonus also applies to the Holy City Shrine, this will be at least +20 base research. This does quite a lot to mitigate the negative impact of expansion on tech rate.

While India doesn't have any tech-specific goals, good tech performance can help to achieve the growth target. (Also, for the historically-minded, it's an accurate Wonder to build.)

(*I think it's each state religion building, so although you can't build it as Buddhist, you should still be able to keep it if you convert later, with the bonus shifting to the new religion's buildings. This means the best path could be to remain Hindu long enough to build Nalanda, and then switch if and when Buddhism becomes diplomatically relevant.)


On a separate note, on the Indus I like to build Purushapura (1 tile W of the Wheat), rather than Lavapuri. I find that the worst Barbarian spawns you have to deal with are stacks of 3 Horsemen that appear *inside* India, right up in the far north (on the Sheep, I think). This city placement seems to block that spawn, while also being very defensible on its Hill against any coming from Afghanistan -- they usually go and target Persia instead.

It's also right next to Sugar, Wheat and Sheep, so has good early growth to become a decent production city (I mainly use it for military units). I suppose a downside is getting Marble and Spices later, but I don't think either of these is that vital.


(Edit: And I jinxed myself, because I got one of those spawns just after posting this! XD)

 

[trexeric]

On the subject of converting state religion to Buddhism, I thought this could be a solid idea for diplomatic purposes — until I discovered that you can't build Nalanda University unless your state religion is Hindu!

If this is true (I haven't checked it myself), surely this is a bug or an oversight of some type, since Nalanda was a Buddhist monastic university.

 

[topsecret]

On the subject of converting state religion to Buddhism, I thought this could be a solid idea for diplomatic purposes — until I discovered that you can't build Nalanda University unless your state religion is Hindu! (This isn't very clearly indicated in the Civilopedia, which makes it look like either Buddhism or Hinduism will do.)

Nalanda University hasn't been mentioned in the thread so far, but it gives +2 Research from each Hindu religious building*. Since you are going to build about 8–10 Hindu Mandirs (depending on whether you get spread of any other religions), at least 1 Hindu Ashram for Missionary production, and the bonus also applies to the Holy City Shrine, this will be at least +20 base research. This does quite a lot to mitigate the negative impact of expansion on tech rate.

While India doesn't have any tech-specific goals, good tech performance can help to achieve the growth target. (Also, for the historically-minded, it's an accurate Wonder to build.)

(*I think it's each state religion building, so although you can't build it as Buddhist, you should still be able to keep it if you convert later, with the bonus shifting to the new religion's buildings. This means the best path could be to remain Hindu long enough to build Nalanda, and then switch if and when Buddhism becomes diplomatically relevant.)


On a separate note, on the Indus I like to build Purushapura (1 tile W of the Wheat), rather than Lavapuri. I find that the worst Barbarian spawns you have to deal with are stacks of 3 Horsemen that appear *inside* India, right up in the far north (on the Sheep, I think). This city placement seems to block that spawn, while also being very defensible on its Hill against any coming from Afghanistan -- they usually go and target Persia instead.

It's also right next to Sugar, Wheat and Sheep, so has good early growth to become a decent production city (I mainly use it for military units). I suppose a downside is getting Marble and Spices later, but I don't think either of these is that vital.


(Edit: And I jinxed myself, because I got one of those spawns just after posting this! XD)

The way to stop those spawns is to fortify units on each tile up there where the cavalry spawn. Then they will spawn west of the mountains and attack Persia

 

[Harold the Saxon]

I succeeded with the UHV, although I did need to conquer the Khmer to make sure we had a buffer above 20%. This could probably have been avoided if I'd irrigated over my Flood Plain/Grassland cottages in my core — but destroying Towns goes against the grain even with that UHV condition!

With a big Chittagong settled early (excellent recommendation from above!) as a staging post, lots of excess production at this stage and being able to deploy both India's Unique Units, the Khmer — with Archers and a couple of Ballista Elephants — are quite easy to take over anyway.

I did not manage to take Sri Lanka, which just seemed to have too many units, including War Galleys, for it to be worth even attempting to land. (Somehow the Tamils remained stable to the end.)

 

[Harold the Saxon]

Some extra points I didn't see mentioned above:

Civics
1. There is a lot of terrain to develop, much of it slow desert/rainforest. You can switch to Manorialism as a free revolution on Turn 1 and use its bonus to churn out cheap Workers in Indraprastha, before switching to Caste System to improve their work rate.

I think my first build in Indraprastha was a Militia, to give it something to do while it grew to size 3 or 4, and it then made 6 or 7 Workers before anything else. They didn't run out of work to do for a very, very long time.

2. I switched to Merchant Trade, but didn't find it very useful: no Oases, and China never opened borders with me, so most of my trade was low-value internal routes. Sticking with Redistribution for the Food may be fine.

3. In earlier versions of the mod/RFC, I switched to Despotism to produce infrastructure as India, but didn't find that necessary here.

4. In total, my suggested Civic switches would be:
— On spawn: —> Manorialism (0 turns)
— Once Priesthood and Arithmetics researched: —> Clergy and Redistribution (1 turn)
— Once Literature researched, assuming target number of Workers reached: —> Caste System (1 turn)
— Once Law researched: —> Citizenship (1 turn)

Caste System has a big enough impact by itself that I don't think it's worth waiting to switch to it and Citizenship together, especially as there will likely be other tech priorities ahead of Law.

Terrain
1. It's very important not to overlook any of the Flood Plains/Grassland tiles along the Ganges. There isn't any clear visual difference, but they each produce as much food as a food resource tile. There are a total of five of them: three to the west of your start; one to the east; and one south-east in the Ganges delta.

These tiles will be worked throughout the game, and if Cottage'd can form the backbone of your economy (even if you might choose to switch to Farm at the very end for an extra pop level or two).

2. While Rainforest Hills can be mined, flat Rainforest can only be cottaged, and 1 Food plus some Commerce is never a very good return. This makes flat Rainforest almost unworkable within the timeframe of the UHVs.

However, it is possible to build a city on Rainforest, so all other things being equal, this should be done, as it makes one of these otherwise worthless tiles useful.

3. Some of the tiles in east-central India are not Rainforest but Jungle. This is an important difference as it can't even be mined, or have a city built on it.

Tech
India doesn't have any tech-specific victory conditions at all, as you already start out with the ability to build Temples. This gives you a lot of freedom in using your tech path to support other goals, especially total population size. Techs that provide Food and Health are good, but probably most important are ways of getting more Production to build all the infrastructure you'll need.

Priesthood for Clergy is a good start here. (There is no urgency in getting it for Missionaries as 700 AD is still a long way away.) Literature for Caste System will help get the many, many needed tile improvements done in good time.

After Priesthood, Arithmetics, Literature, Philosophy, Bloomery is a very important tech to get before the rate, quantity and quality of barbarian spawns increases too much. Since there is no accessible Copper, you need it to make Spearmen (check carefully which enemy cavalry are Heavy vs Light!) and Swordsmen. (Not to mention, more production from your Iron tile.) Riding is valuable for similar reasons: Horsemen are a good counter to Axemen.

As always when expansion is required, Currency for Marketplaces is very important to keep the economy balanced. Very expensive, but Citizenship will help with that if Law has been grabbed first.

Steel is very significant indeed for Production, as you can get Forges everywhere very easily through Iron Pillar. In addition, while Lumbermills are only regionally important, they can improve Indraprastha/Dilli's Hammer output a lot (assuming you didn't chop all the Forest to its north down!).

I don't agree with the OP that it's important to research Seafaring or Shipbuilding — these can be traded for later. I didn't find any need for Catapults (although bridge building from the same tech is relevant for rapid response), and Pharmacies arrived too late to be relevant. Crop Rotation's irrigation had a much less significant impact on my Food production than getting Machinery and replacing non-resource Mines with Windmills.

Wonders
I built the Wonders that are historical to the region — plus Jetavanaramaya: I didn't manage to conquer Sri Lanka, but I stole their Wonder!

Nalanda University (Philoshopy) — Does a great job of propping up your tech rate as you expand.
Khajuraho (Civil Service) — Directly relevant to the final UHV, and the same buildings constructed for Nalanda will benefit from this
Iron Pillar (Steel) — Forge in every city is huge for getting everything built, and thanks to India's Unique Power the Unhealth is almost counteracted by the +2 Happiness from Gems, Gold.
Jetavanaramaya (Aesthetics) — Directly relevant to the final UHV. Need to build Theatres and Weavers to take advantage.
Vijaya Stambha (Companies) — Totally useless, but it's part of the victory lap!

If you want to go ahistorical, China rarely seems to manage to construct Dujiangyan with any haste, and it would make UHV-3 way easier.


These were my cities in order:
• Pataliputra — Mining its available hills with priority (one Grassland, 2W, 1N, under Forest on the river; the other 2S, 1W, Plains/Rainforest) is vital to its productivity! Plantations can wait.
• Indraprastha, later Dilli — Main workhorse city.
• Chittagong, 1S of Rice — I got to this region long before China. This city's Culture grew to dominate the whole north of Indochina, even taking the Tea three tiles east. One of your best production cities if you have enough Worker-time available to develop it. Also an important source of Gold.
• Bhopal, Plains Hill 3S of Dilli — Can borrow Dilli's Rice and Wheat for early growth and quickly develop good production with Iron to the east and Horses to the west. Once it's developed and barbarians are under control, can rely on Rice to the south and other Farms for Food, returning the northern food resources to Dilli. Also a big Commerce output with two Gem mines and Incense.
• Purushapura, upper Indus, 1W of Wheat — Has Sugar, Wheat and Sheep for early development, before returning Sugar to Dilli. Blocks northern pass into India. Good production. Downside is that the western half of its big cross is not very usable without a lot of units to protect Workers and Improvements.
• Kolkata, 2S, 1E of Pataliputra, 1S of Bananas — Built inside Pataliputra's big cross: but it doesn't matter because it's a nigh worthless tile for it. This spot is very tightly tucked in with Pataliptura and Chittagong, but was chosen in order to have a third city inside India's very small core zone. Makes use of Floodplain/Grassland and mined Rainforest Hill to its east. Lacks the production to do any more than work on its own development.
• Kashtpur, middle Indus, 1SE of Marble — Gets to a middling size with farmed Floodplains. Picks up Spices.
• Chennai, hill between Elephant and Cow — Conquered from Tamils. A spot that can reach a very good size thanks to its surroundings, but suffered from Happiness/Health issues due to being low priority for resource bonus assignment because of lower Culture total.
• Tanjapuri, E of Gold — Conquered from Tamils. Decent growth potential, but I didn't manage to take Sri Lanka or collapse the Tamils, so it took a long time to take its Fish and never claimed its Cows, even with an Artist running continually, so never grew all that big for me.
• Mumbai, N of Bananas — Nothing to remark.
• Raipur, between Kolkata and Chennai, 1W of Tea — An emergency build when I thought Mumbai might not finish two Temples in time. It borrowed Bhopal's Iron until it finished its Temple. After that it mostly only worked one actual tile: the nearby Sugar that wasn't in any other city's radius.
• Angkor and Phuket — Conquered from Khmer in ~1010 AD.

I was mostly happy with my placements, although there might be better options along the Indus. There's room for another city at the mouth of the Indus, but I'm not sure how big it would actually get and it might require/provoke conflict with Persia/Independents/Arabs.

Will add a screenshot in an edit later!