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A Gun Free Utopia

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by nc-1701, Jan 25, 2008.

?

What would you choose?

  1. Remove all guns

    41.7%
  2. Don't remove guns

    51.5%
  3. Other?

    6.8%
  1. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    So tell me, what exactly is it that I fear that prompts me to keep my gun locked up in a little box and hidden away in my closet 99.9% of the time. Yes, I have a conceal carry permit, yes I am well trained in how to use the firearm, and yes I leave it alone and locked up all the time. How about "the absolutely best reason for an American to own a gun is simply because they can. It is their fundamental right as an American and they should exercise it."

    I find that people who are opposed to guns and throw out irrational statements about fear and so forth are themselves actually the fearful ones. They have an irrational fear of firearms and demonstrate that via a desire to keep others from owning that which they fear.
     
  2. Godwynn

    Godwynn March to the Sea

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    On the other side of the coin, I want to keep guns because I am fearful of what the state can do if the population is unarmed.

    Fear is a major motivational tool.
     
  3. Trajan12

    Trajan12 Deity

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    Yeah I'm pretty damn fearful. Go to any major American city and learn why, get fearful for yourself. Or leave your life in the hands of the friendly officers too busy filling ticket quotas to respond to emergency calls.
     
  4. StarWorms

    StarWorms Deity

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    I would definitely get rid of the guns.
    He didn't do a very good job then. What happened to his all-knowing and all-powerful forces? :rolleyes:
     
  5. useless

    useless Social Justice Rogue

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    indeed no guns, unless you all want another columbine, not like i care if there would be another one since you dont do anything to stop kids getting guns.
     
  6. Emperor2

    Emperor2 Capitalist Missionary

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    3. No way to hunt meat without unnessesary loss of meat, unessesary effort, etc. You can still use bow and arrows, but they aren't as good as a .22
    2. People can kill with other hand held things other then guns,and the easiest way to get them is with a gun.
    1. DISARMING INNOCENT PEOPLE DOES NOT PROTECT INNOCENT PEOPLE.

    Sorry about the late fix up.
     
  7. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

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    The thread title is wrong...it should be dystopia.
     
  8. Dame Edna

    Dame Edna Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
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    Only you know what it is you fear and why it is that you own a gun. My argument is why the need to own a gun that is not required as part of your job or because of a recreational pursuit.

    It would appear there are two predominate reasons people argue they need to carry a gun:

    1. self protection because they fear attack from someone else in or outside their society or;

    2. they believe they have a right to carry a gun (obviously a common theme for many Americans) and need to because they fear the abuse of power by their government.

    I know something about American history, but certainly don't claim to be an expert, and it seems to me that at the time the "right to bear arms" was written into your constitution the situation Americans faced was very different from today - lets face it the British, native Americans other enemies that threatened a young nation shouldn't be an issue these days. The other part of that argument is that Americans need guns to protect their freedom - but from what? If you democratically elect your nations government why do you need guns to fight against it when you can peacefully campaign for a new government at the next election, plus you have an independent judicary to appeal to where there is an abuse of power - seems like a no brainer to me.

    As has been mentioned there are many democratic societies that manage to exist with out the need to own guns except as a requirement of job or sport. I don't have an irrational fear of guns, I just don't see the need to own one (in Australia) because I have nothing to fear. If you believe you need a gun living in America I'm not seeking to prevent you ( how could I) I'm just trying to get a coherent argument as to why you need a gun if you don't fear something or someone.
     
  9. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    I don't need one. That's why I almost never have it out of my locked box in my closet. Kind of like my strap wrench.
    But I wanted one, and it's my fundamental right to have one, so why not get it?
     
  10. Dame Edna

    Dame Edna Prince

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    Sounds like the firearms industry has done a good job with their marketing.
     
  11. Huayna Capac357

    Huayna Capac357 Deity

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    In Japan, they have nearly no guns. And, look at this:

    Okay.... look at the comparisons. Notice Japan's (gun free) crime rate compared to anti-gun control countries such as the US. It's no wonder Japan has such a low crime rate. Guns are the most efficient killing machines on the planet, and with a single shot, can end a life. Drugs, alcohol, and revenge combined with guns are lethal. Hostage situations are most commonly started with guns, and most major robberies are held at gunpoint. Any fool without a record can buy a gun, kill someone, then throw the gun over a bridge. As for the hunting arguments, hunting is cruel. Animals aren't self aware, and suddenly, without warning, they just get blown away by some idiot with a semi-automatic "hunting rifle." If you're going to say maiming deer is cruel, yet killing them with a gun is somehow "fair," you disgust me.
     
  12. StarWorms

    StarWorms Deity

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    3. Fair point. How do most shops kill animals anyway?
    2. So you're saying that if guns don't exist, it would be bad, because people with guns could get knives? :crazyeye: Secondly in a fight with a criminal I'd rather get a cut on my head from a knife than a bullet through the brain. Knives have to be used at close range, which makes it more difficult than with a gun.
    1. Yes it does.
     
  13. Irish Caesar

    Irish Caesar Yellow Jacket

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    Hunting is an important part of wildlife management, which is a responsibility of ours towards the environment. Do you find that eating meat in general is cruel? Because if not, your double standard is mind-boggling, and if so, then we'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

    And your signature is too long.
     
  14. lovett

    lovett Deity

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    Fundamental right, huh. Sounds like 'nonsense upon stilts'.
     
  15. LucyDuke

    LucyDuke staring at the clock

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    That's precisely why I want one.

    I don't need to carry a gun. I want to own a gun.

    Believe? We do. It's in our Constitution.

    Everyone should fear the abuse of power by their government.

    Where are the gun ads?
     
  16. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

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    There's two reasons I vote "no":

    - I do not think that the state having a monopoly on force is a good idea, and

    - Guns allow older/weaker/handicapped people to defend themselves adequately that would otherwise not be able to do so. If guns magically went away, you'd be empowering young physically fit males.
     
  17. lovett

    lovett Deity

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    This is an arguable reason I suppose. The question then is, why do you think the state may abuse it's monopoly on force?

    If this really is a possibility, does it not reveal that something needs to be fundamentally changed in the US system of checks and balances?

    Furthermore, I'd like to know whether private ownership of small arms is ever really going to be a suitable deterrent if a goverment becomes capable of militarily controlling several hundred million civillians. With things like tanks and shiny planes, presumably. And if not, then surely this justification for gun ownership would nessecitate the formation of civilian militias. With corresponding amounts of tanks and shiny planes?

    Not really. Theres plenty many weapons that can disable people with as much (or more) effectiveness then guns. Pepper spray or tasers, for example. The difference is that these are non-lethal.

    Completely incidentally, this is a somewhat absurd arguement, no?
    Currently, I have the right to commit suicide, I hope I'm not expected to exercise this?

    If we're going to take the bill of rights as a magical document of natural rights then, if I were american, I would have the 'inalienable right' to peaceably assemble, petition the goverment, have a wide range of religious beliefs and a dozen other things.

    It does not follow that I should regularily try and organise citizens assemblies, or believe in some absurd creed. Nor does my right to free speech compell me to slander people, just cause I can.
     
  18. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

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    You're going circular in your argument there - private ownership of small arms helps in preventing a government from being able to militarily control several hundred million civilians in the first place. And yes, it could conceivably be a deterrent.

    But anyway, we don't know whether it would be a deterrent. Since we can't know until and unless it has already happened (at which point it would be too late, if we guessed wrong), it is better to err on the side of having more options.

    Pepper spray is of varying effectiveness. Some people like their five-alarm chili, some people faint away at the sight of it.

    Tasers are either a one-shot affair, or require physical contact.

    Believe me, if there were a "stun" pistol that I could carry concealed, I'd give up my .380 semiautomatic in a heartbeat.
     
  19. Newbunkle

    Newbunkle Muppet

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    Great idea! Now we can go back to using sticks and blades!
     
  20. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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    Ug. How nonsensical.
     

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