1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

A Gun Free Utopia

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by nc-1701, Jan 25, 2008.

?

What would you choose?

  1. Remove all guns

    41.7%
  2. Don't remove guns

    51.5%
  3. Other?

    6.8%
  1. StarWorms

    StarWorms Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,348
    Location:
    England
    That's odd because there are plenty of countries around the world which have guns banned, and their governments are not militarily controlling several hundred million casualties.
     
  2. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    22,348
    Location:
    Igloo, New Hampshire
    Can =/= does. ;)
     
  3. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,507
    What about just because they enjoy it? Or just because they want to? Who are you to say "Your constitutional rights don't apply because I don't happen to feel the same things you do"?

    I don't personally own any guns, but this is ridiculous.
     
  4. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    22,348
    Location:
    Igloo, New Hampshire
    Oooh, I didn't see this before.

    Why do security guards need guns?

    And sporting shooters do not "need" guns. It's a hobby. If you're not going to permit guns for self defense, there's no reason to permit them for amateur sports.

    But anyway, I consider myself my own personal security guard. If you're going to argue that they need them and they don't "live in fear", then the same applies to me.
     
  5. lovett

    lovett Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,570
    Ah, perhaps a point is being missed somewhere here.

    The gist of what I was trying to say is that it would take extraordinary power to dominate an unwilling population of several hundred million regardless of whether they have guns or not. Much more important is the mindset and intransigence (or lack thereof) of the civilian body itself.

    This force could only be achieved by overwhelming strength of arms and shocking brutality. Given this, if a goverment can so subjugate a population this way, what effectiveness would small arms have? Other then a slight nuisence and an excuse for mass-murder.

    I'd argue that we have evidence that an armed civilian populace do not deter dictatorial control, nowadasy. Primarily, as someone else mentioned, despite plenty of states having an unarmed populace, very few of these states (comparatively) are under non-democratic control. Nor would the state armies be able to enforce such control for long.

    In contrast, countries controlled in dictatorial styles just as often as not tend to have a well armed civilian populace. Take Pakistan for example. Therefore, i'd suggest that most modernised states find it well nigh impossible to enforce their will on an unwilling populace. Thailand is a good example of this, the 2006 Thai coup d'état would never have succeeded and sustained itself without popular support.

    This would pose somewhat of a connundrum to the gun-toting democrat. Is it really morally valid to fight your popular goverment because you strongly disagree with it?

    I've never heard of pepper sray being so ineffective. From where have you gathered this opinion about it??
     
  6. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    22,348
    Location:
    Igloo, New Hampshire
    And the possibility exists that the history and tradition of civilians owning firearms for this reason nurtures the mindset of the civilian body.

    Like in Iraq or Afghanistan? Though to be fair, IEDs have been helpful too.

    Truthfully when it comes to the "gun debate" I've long since abandoned taking any other nations as demonstrations of any point of view. At root (IMHO), the question of "can an armed populace deter or defeat an illegitimate government" is a purely academic one, since there's no way that the United States government can effectively disarm the population given prevailing attitudes and the sheer number of firearms in private ownership.

    Indeed, it's a little like obscenity and the First Amendment. But at some point, a group of terrorists becomes a revolution, it's just a fuzzy ill-defined line between them. ;)

    Mostly from CCW classes (and in Alaska, among stories about bear encounters), but here's two links from a quick websearch:
    http://pepperspray.lifetips.com/cat/59737/pepper-spray-effectiveness/
    http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/pepperspray.html
     

Share This Page