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A Lack of Creativity

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by cairo140, Apr 5, 2006.

  1. cairo140

    cairo140 2+2=5

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
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    Location:
    Thornhill, Canada
    I know how all civics are very useful, but I am somewhat suprised that Creative is commonly ranked as the least useful out of all the civics. I personally adore the trait, and find I have much more success with it. Here are my reasons.

    1. Theatre is an EXCELLENT cheap building to slavery rush if you have an angry staving city after capture, and it produces lots and lots of culture.

    2. Your cities can use their full city radius within 2-15 turns depending on gamespeed and religion.

    3. You can landgrab very effectively.

    4. Cultural defense bonus means that the trait pretty much guaruntees +20% defense for all cities.

    5. Borders expand quicker overall, meaning more territory is yours.

    6. You will rarely lost a recently captured city due to re-assimilation.

    Somehow, I fail to see how a trait such as expansionist, spiritual, or organized (iffy on the third one) can be better than creative? So you tell me.
     
  2. scooter

    scooter Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
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    599
    Actually I think Creative is underrated too, but financial is better for pretty obvious reasons. Spiritual can be phenomenal if you're more leaning toward a micromanager in style. I haven't played much w/ expansionist so I don't have a comment on that. I'm not sure I'm thrilled with Organized, it's definitely a solid trait but there are better. But I think Creative weighs in at least 3rd maybe even 2nd in strength.
     
  3. Ardinius

    Ardinius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
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    22
    I think I'm going adopt creative after that post. Theres nothing more satisfying than having a city flip to your civilization because of culture. I wish you could flip cities easier.

    -Ardinius
     
  4. armchairknight

    armchairknight Warlord

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    Apr 2, 2006
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    Location:
    Jackson, Michigan
    Lately I've been playing Loius XIV, due to his Creativity and his Industriousness. I love growing my culture. It is fun to watch my borders slowly engulf the land. Cheap wonders don't hurt either.
     
  5. TNTTony

    TNTTony Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
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    25
    Personally, creative trait is only good for beginning portion of the game when you are trying to grab new land. I have found that culture flipping take ages if the city you want to flip is well establish. However, once the cities are establish and it gets harder to culture flip cities...I don't think the creative trait becomes useful.

    Don't get me wrong though...I do like it. I love playing a creative leader and knowing that I start out with 2 culture per turn at the start while the AI has to been obelisk and temples for their culture.
     
  6. Pantastic

    Pantastic King

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    Creative is pretty much an early game trait. It's certainly nice not needing to mess with mysticism, obelisks, stonehenge, or an early religion, and the +2 culture is a big deal when a border city is likely to only have 1-4 naturally. Later on when cities have tons of culture already generated and generate a dozen or more per turn, it's not all that significant of a bonus. Certainly not a bad trait, but I can see why it's not the most popular.
     
  7. Agarwaen

    Agarwaen King

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    Location:
    São Paulo, Brasil
    I disagree, if you keep expanding (colonies or going to domination victory) the creative trait is still usefull, you simply don't need to built that culture building! no need to obelisk:)
     
  8. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    On the other hand being industrious means you can build stone henge in less than twice the time it would take bulid an obelisk, and stonehenge basically makes you creative for the begining of the game. the time in which it matters the most.
     
  9. MrPaladin

    MrPaladin Warlord

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    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    But if your creative and you build stonehenge, you ensure that noone else does, and you can use the few great phropets from it to get a stranglehold on the religions...
     
  10. Older than Dirt

    Older than Dirt King

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    Location:
    Swamps of Houston
    Creative seems to be a niche trait and not nearly as useful in most games as Industrial, Spiritual, Organized, or Financial. But, then again all of the traits are somewhat that way. If you have the Financial trait and have a poor location with little trade income, the trait is pretty useless, as I sadly found from experience.
     
  11. gunkulator

    gunkulator Emperor

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    If you can afford the maintenance for garbage cities and colonies, you can afford to rush a culture building. For domination in AI land, those extra 2 culture will mean nothing when put up against AI cities with thousands of culture points. Since mid-to-late conquered AI cities are usually decent size with decently developed land, you should be able to build a culture building pretty fast.
     
  12. GrandMatt

    GrandMatt Warlord

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    Dec 14, 2004
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    Location:
    Perth
    I dont find creativity to be that powerful, early game it is useful, but its not as powerful as you are suggesting.

    Spiritual is an awesome trait

    1. Can convert civics no anarchy period, also same with religions.
    -- Saves precious turns, can micro manage civics ie war/ peace time.
    --- The best thing i have found with spiritual is those annoying AI convert to my favourite civic or religion, you can do this with no turn penalty and in like 4 turns convert back no turn penalty, this is vital for when your goin for permanent alliances, also just keeping relations high with neighbours.

    Organised is helpful
    -- cheap courthouses = lower maintance, and the quicker you lower your maintainance in all cities, the quicker you can expand without the burden of having to lower research because you have to many citys.
    --- cheap lighthouses, not soo good on pangea maps, but if on an archipeligo map is extremely useful!
    And the last bonus of -50% off civic costs, is awesome, as you can use those expensive civics easily without worrying to much about the economic impact. Having Vassalige, Theocracy, Police state is quite a pricey combination, but is awesome for pumping out a quality army!
     
  13. SkippyT

    SkippyT Who?

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    Location:
    Reykjavík, Iceland
    Creative/Finincial the best leader traits. And that matches Cathy and her UU is also the best so Russia is the best civilization in the game (in my opinion)
     
  14. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    It really all depends on your own preferences and how you play the game, methinks. Any of the traits in any combination can be used in an effective winning strategy.

    Perhaps Creative is only really useful at the start of the game, but if played properly, it can be key to setting a firm foundation for winning. The first few turns are very important, especially when establishing your core cities. Not only is Creative's easy land-grabbing and border expansion valuable at this stage, as the OP pointed out; you can also get a jump on everyone else by being able to direct your research and building away from Mysticism, Obelisks, and Stonehenge.

    People probably like playing as Catherine so much because of the "hand-off" between her traits. Creative gives her a leg up in the early game, and just by the time its benefits are becoming marginal, the cottages start to mature and the Financial trait kicks in big time.
     
  15. MrPaladin

    MrPaladin Warlord

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    Had a fun game with Kubla (sp?) Khan... between my Slavery Civic and creative trait I did a swift landgrab and I was able to clean the world of enemy scum with swordsmen and kersheks (sp?) before any gunpowder or highwalls could stop me....

    people in my citys became generally unhappy by the end as I only just got around to spreading religion, but by then my horde was built and I didn't care what my people thought, who are they gonna revolt to... we are the only civilation left Bwhahaha
     
  16. Perfect_Blue

    Perfect_Blue Yume Senshi

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    I think the Mogols, specifically Kublai, are pretty cool. Creative does mean quick land grab and border pop, and is especially useful in early warfare imho. Keshiks are pretty awesome if used right. Creative and Keshiks, now that's an army that can move!
     
  17. A+ombomb

    A+ombomb Actuary

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    It can be useful, but there are so many other ways to expand borders, especially beyond the ancient age, that its not too worth it. Its usually more beneficial to pack in cities to avoid high maintenance costs, especially in MP, so often times there is diminished reason to expanding boundaries. The fact that libraries also expand boundaries really is the kicker, as in a sp game many cities will make this building. Creative is more of a crutch than a good trait. I find that financial and organized are generally the most powerful traits in a game you expect to last any reasonable amount of time (most games). Organized is especially preferred in later era starts, since you can send your workers to chop trees and build roads and gather strategic resources rather than building cottages to support expansion. Spiritual can be good, but the potential gain from micromanaging civics rather than choosing long term goal civics is fairly marginal. I find myself only changing civics 2-3 times a game in MP, but its certainly better in SP where games last longer.
     
  18. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    Creative pays off little in the Ancient times, but you definitely get big bonuses if you get large enough to safely expand your borders. If the terrain and other civs cooperate, business can be booming. Creative is a great trait. :)
     
  19. fuji

    fuji Chieftain

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    I don't know but if you pick a spiritual Civ, you can get a religion very fast wich means BOTH culture and happiness
     
  20. MrPaladin

    MrPaladin Warlord

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    ahh good counter point, as I said in my game I was starting to have trouble with unhappy citys because they were both getting crowded and they were upset at my use of slavery... unfortunatly for me I didn't find a good spot with +happy items like gold etc etc...

    The only trick with going for religion is you dont get bronzeworking as fast... stalls the start of your conquest...

    I litterally took one town with 4 warriors who were +25 vs archers, I expected to go thru 3 of them... but the first one won at 0.2 chance!
     

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