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A little bit about ships...

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Religion and Revolution' started by Sarin, Nov 14, 2017 at 6:29 PM.

  1. Sarin

    Sarin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    251
    As I prefer historical accuracy in games whenever possible, the state of ships on Colonization in general, and even in RaR, has been kinda annoying.

    Now that development has resumed, I think it could be vastly improved. What bothers me a lot is the scale. In reality, ships like large galleons, frigates or ships of the line would be commissioned almost exclusively by the navy of the respective country, and most of the traffic in colonies, including piracy and combat, would be done by smaller vessels. Even frigates were rare sight in Americas, and ships of the line visited only during open hostilities. So, I think it should look like this:

    Combat vessels:

    Sloop: Weakest combat ship, still enough to take down smallest pirate vessel, can retreat from combat. No cargo room. Available from Europe and buildable from drydock. Current model is based on late 18th-19th century cutter which would be used for coastal patrols and raiding and did not carry supplies for trans-atlantic voyage, so in the future it could be replaced by something based on brig, patache or other two-masted ship used in this role.

    Race-built galleon: Main warship used in colonies. This represents smaller galleon types used as main vessel for exploration and combat during later parts of 16th and early 17th century, for example Drake's Golden Hind. About equal to pirate frigate, with attack bonus against pirates. One cargo slot, can capture cargo. Uses current corvette model (it's mostly fine, only some details are off). Available from Europe, shipyard, and maybe some events/FFs.

    Light frigate: This represents various late 17th and 18th century frigates of ~20-32 guns, which would be mainstay of most European navies of that time. Fast enough to keep up with pirates and strong enough to take them down with ease, pretty much like current frigate. But since these were buit and crewed exclusively by state navies, they should not be for sale in Europe, and should be available only through events, FFs or built in Naval Port. The model best fitting would be reskinned current privateer, freeing the frigate model for heavy frigate.

    Heavy frigate: this covers mostly two interesting variations on frigate, razees and United States class. Razees were older ships of the line whose upper works were cut down to create a frigate, but they retained the tougher structure of the ship of the line, and heavy armament on its gun deck, usually 18-24 pounder guns. United States class were first frigates built by USA (USS Constitution is most well known, and only one still afloat, but ship classes are traditionally named after first ship of the class) and since USA at time didn't have funds or manpower to keep a ship of the line, they were built tougher and with stronger armament than usual for frigates, to outgun or outrun anything they could encounter. Stronger than normal frigates, with one cargo slot and capability to capture cargo, they should be available only through rare event with Naval Port (king phasing out older ship of the line, offers it to you to cut down to razee) or some late FFs.

    Ship of the line: okay as it is, but available only through the event when King orders you to attack another colonial power, instead of current Man'o War.

    Man'o War: should be available to player only through foreign intervention after DoI.

    Pirates:

    Colonial Pirate: this represents most actual pirate (not privateer) ships. A merchant ship converted to makeshift warship packing 10-20 lighter guns (3-9 pounders). While capable of taking on lighter ships, it should be weaker than sloop (which were most commonly used in anti-piracy duties). Most common ship spawning as neutral pirate. Probably need a new model, or modification of smuggling ship model.

    Privateer: middle class pirate ship, should be almost a fair match for race-built galleon and capable of taking on regular galleon loaded with goods, these should be main pirate ships available to European player. Might need a new model though, if the current is used for light frigate...possibly based on dutch flyboat (a light hybrid between carrack and fluyt).

    Pirate frigate: should be slightly stronger than race-built galleons, but those should have significant attack bonus against all pirates, so it would be a matter of who attacks first (and is loaded). Should be rarer than now though...it should represent those few unique large pirate vessels like Queen Anne's Revenge or Fancy. The model bothers me though...it's xebec, which were never used in America except for few actually built and used on Great Lakes and few hybrids, and mainmast sail is in opposite tack to other sails, which would never be used in practice.

    Merchants: mostly good now, though...galleons and west indiamen should not be simply buyable from Europe. It's a matter of early game, it works best to get a galleon ASAP and ignore lighter ships, as galleon will carry the treasures from early exploration home. They should be buildable only from shipyard and bigger, and available through events and FFs. And it would be great if they could get more cargo capacity (if the game and UI supports it), as some of those vessels could carry over 1000 tons of cargo, while regular merchantmen and similar were in range of tens to few hundred tons of cargo at most.

    Well...quite a wall of text to describe relatively small changes. Read on your own peril.
     
    M07 likes this.
  2. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,200
    Location:
    Germany
    Thank you for your thoughts.

    We will consider them at a later stage since we have currently a lot of things to do and the re-balancing of ships is currently not on the to do list. Maybe sometimes in the future. :):thumbsup:
     
  3. Sarin

    Sarin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    251
    Alright, though I believe the availability of large ships should be addressed soon. As noted in another thread, the early game has become quite stale, with one best way to start, and that is getting cross production and scouting ASAP, buy a galleon from cash you get through scouting directly, and ferry treasure to Europe and trade goods back to trade with natives, quickly accumulating cash, while your starting ship will just ferry immigrants, tools and bought specialists. Not making galleons available ASAP will throw a wrench in it, and will force player to either take a loss by taking up King's transport to get treasure off quickly and using the money, or finding an alternate means of income quickly.

    Generally...right now, most ship types are used almost exclusively by AI, or not at all, as is the case of corvette. For player, getting anything but galleons, west indiamen, frigates and ships of the line is useless.
     
  4. devolution

    devolution Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2016
    Messages:
    59
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stavanger, Norway
    Thanks for the history lesson :goodjob: I don't know much about ships, so I appreciate that someone does and elaborates on them a bit. As for the AI, it sure could need some help (or a complete overhaul) with its naval strategy / tactics...
     
  5. Sarin

    Sarin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    251
    You're welcome, but I've just scratched the surface :D If RaR would ever introduce eras or technological advancement, I'd gladly help with another lecture. Or about army....
     

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