1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

A little confused about all the "this is not Civ 4" criticism

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Becephalus, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. Becephalus

    Becephalus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    725
    Of course the exact same criticisms came up for Civ 2, Civ 3, and Civ 4 so I shouldn't be surprised I guess.

    Its not like they completely ruined the game (looking at you MOO3 and Simcity Societies).

    Personally I think the changes and design decisions were very wise ones. Yes it is not complete, but only 5% of games are when released these days. Budgets are too tight, development cultures too corporate, and patches/expansion too lucrative.

    Mainly the AI needs tightening up, but that is true of every single strategy game I have ever played.

    There are also a few nonsensical things with the tiles, and the tech tree, and a little balancing of great people is in order but overall I think it plays great.
     
  2. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,273
    Location:
    Shacklyn
    You and me both. And we're in the majority, but the minority thinks it's the majority and it won't shut up. :lol:
     
  3. Boojumhunter

    Boojumhunter Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Brampton, Ont
    Thou shalt never mention the game that begins with 'M'
    I'm still on medication because of THAT debacle.
     
  4. Zechnophobe

    Zechnophobe Strategy Lich

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,866
    Location:
    Goleta, California
    The minority wanted another awesome game, and got a decent but not great one.

    I mean, civ 4 is one of the best games of all time, losing 20% of the avid customers from it on civ 5 is a whole lot of people.
     
  5. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    67
    Anyone who says that Civ 5 is better than Civ 4 clearly <snip> at Civ 4 and wanted something simple.

    Moderator Action: If you don't have anything constructive to say, please don't say anything at all.
     
  6. RX2000

    RX2000 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2001
    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    USA
    Yep this is true. I've liked Civ V since I first played it, but I come on the boards & it looks like everyone is just bashing it. Oh well, to each his own I guess.

    I dont think its perfect, but what PC game is these days? They all come out with bugs & usually dont get super awesome til after a couple expansions.....
     
  7. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,467
    The problem is not that the game is different. I like different. The problem is that the game is stupid. It's a sequel of Civ Rev and should have been named accordingly.
     
  8. RX2000

    RX2000 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2001
    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    USA
    Or just didnt need Civ V to be Civ 4.5. Its a totally different game. Why should it be like Civ 4?

    I think people who play games to have FUN like Civ V. Seems to be the people who play games to prove to themselves how bad ass they are at outsmarting a computer who dont like it & think its "dumbed down." :p
     
  9. Becephalus

    Becephalus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    725
    You are way way way overestimating the avid fan-base compared to the total fan-base.

    Easily 90% of Civ buyers never go to a fourm. You are looking at a tiny sampling of the people who buy the product and thinking it is representative.

    I would bet any amount of money that the truly disaffected purchasers are under 5%, and that even most of the die hards think it is an improvement.

    In 5 years you will be the exact same ones crying This Civ 6 sucks and it is no Civ 5. They took away great people how could they do that great people are the roxorz!
     
  10. Zechnophobe

    Zechnophobe Strategy Lich

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,866
    Location:
    Goleta, California
    Why do people always say this? This is... I don't even know what. What do you think these other people are doing with their games? Smashing them against their foreheads? Using them to benchmark their computer, and then deleting them?

    When you say this, who do you envision these people are, who "don't like FUN" or whatnot? Armchair art critics who spend 50 bucks and review games from the armchair of their lazy-boy while toking a bit of a cigar in their loafers?
     
  11. Becephalus

    Becephalus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    725
    Yeah I put in over 1000 hours on BTS, made some popular mods/maps for Civ 3/Civ 4, and could beat the game on very hard settings with a ton of house rules.

    But I must think Civ 5 is good because I sucked at Civ 4. I hope you were being sarcastic?
     
  12. May Day 10

    May Day 10 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    353
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    in my opinion, Civ V isnt fun at all. I havent even gotten through a complete game and have not touched it for 4 days.

    Im a huge fan of Civ and have been looking forward to this release for so long. Didnt want to hear any negative words or reviews either. I was positive the game would be great.

    Its not because it "isnt Civ IV". Its because the game sucks and is boring, and isnt really all that challenging.
     
  13. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,467
    Agreed. But it is too far from Civs 2, 3 and 4 while it's close to Civ Rev. That's why I think Firaxis was just milking the name when they released it as Civilization V. I, for one, would have saved my money to buy a better designed (not talking about bugs) game.
     
  14. Zechnophobe

    Zechnophobe Strategy Lich

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,866
    Location:
    Goleta, California
    So, when I say '20% of the avid fan base' I am specifically referring to the population of people who go on to forums. Those are the Avid Fans. Them.

    Avid fans will spread word of the good or bad of a game a lot faster than those that just picked it up.

    Also, while polls on the forum show about the numbers I put up there, I am guessing you have even less to back up your 5% number.

    I loved civ 2, civ 2 test of time, civ 3, civ 4, civ 4 with bts and warlords. I loved Alpha centauri.

    I don't particularly love Civ 5.

    So... extrapolating that I won't like civ 6 either is contrary to trend. Only if civ 6 is even worse than civ 5 will that be true.
     
  15. anandus

    anandus Errorist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    3,855
    Location:
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    I wouldn't say any is better, they are different.

    And besides Civ4 vanilla wasn't that good either. But apparently people tend to forget.

    Civ 4 BTS on the other hand is brilliant, and it is imho unfair to compare these two.
    Let's see where we stand in two years time, and then compare it with Civ4 BTS. Than we can make a fair comparison.

    And the fact that I've put in 34 hours since friday-evening does count for something, I'd say.
     
  16. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,273
    Location:
    Shacklyn
    Bingo.

    Yes, a few hundred people may hate it and rush to the interwebs to register their displeasure. Meanwhile, a few hundred thousand are nowhere near any forum and are enjoying the game.

    Plus, the few hundred old "die-hards" they lost because those folks wanted Civ 4, Part 2 are easily overcome by the few thousand new die-hards they gained by releasing a fun, accessible game. Their 'loss' won't even be noticed.

    I'm sorry that you feel disappointed, but it's a numbers game. Software development is a business, like it or not. A corporation doesn't worry about hurting your feelings, it worries about releasing a quality product. Sid is not here to hold your hand and croon sweet nothings into your ear. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
     
  17. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    67
    But Civ 5 isn't fun at all, and many people on this forum could attest to that. Slow turns, lack of depth, and bugs galore make Civ 5 unorthodox to Civ's reputation for quality. I'm not saying it needs to be another Civ 4, but it does need to match, if not surpass the depth and level of choice. Civ 5 is Civ Rev with glitter and perfume.
     
  18. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,467
    You fanboys just don't get it, right? No one wanted a Civ 4.5 or something, we wanted Civ V, not Civ Rev 2.
     
  19. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    67
    I was very hooked on Civ 4 vanilla. There are very few other games I can say that about.
     
  20. Becephalus

    Becephalus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    725
    I worked as a game developer and at one point we were putting all this effort into MP balance and the needs of the forum goers. Then we installed some software to see how people were playing the game and connected the forum accounts with the game registration.


    91% of people never played a single game of MP (despite it being the only thing any of the developers played), and a full 87% never went to the forum once. And this is for a game that was much less generally popular and had a much more dedicated fanbase than civ.

    It was a huge shock to us and made us completely realign our priorities. I am sure companies like 2k know this as well.

    Frankly all and all Civ 5 has had a much more positive launch than civ 4 did. But I think people forget.
     

Share This Page