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A little confused about all the "this is not Civ 4" criticism

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Becephalus, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    If by "many" you mean "a few hundred," then yeah. Unfortunately the 70,000 players on Steam right now disagree with you. :lol:
     
  2. Flavorable

    Flavorable Warlord

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    Lots of people love the lack of micro each turn, the depth is still there, and every Civ excluding 2 has had way more bugs on release. And yeah, you've been pretty much saying it needs to be another Civ 4.
     
  3. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    :goodjob: :lol:
     
  4. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    Guess I'll save that post somewhere, it will be handy the next days/weeks:
     
  5. NCC81701

    NCC81701 Chieftain

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    These are not the same criticism. In Civ 3, and Civ 4 had improvements over the previous civ games but they still included, if not expanded on what the previous game did. In Civ 5, things that has been seen as the cores of a Civ game is strip to bare bones, missing, or incomplete. I'm talking about things like Diplomacy, espionage, and general lack of documentation for anything.

    The Potential for Civ 5 is still there, but I would not call the game as shipped as a finished product. I don't know why other people don't have a problem with this, but I wouldn't buy a car if their airbags wasn't going to be installed for another year, or the speedometer is buggy and occasionally display 20 mph when you're going 50 down the high way. Unless the game is patch/fix Civ 5 will ruin the franchise.

    There were some good design changes, but the game isn't finished. City states for example was a very good concept, but the primary way of keeping them on good terms is by paying them off. This is simplistic, and broken because of the diminishing return on gold tributes, making long term alliance w/ a city state a complete money sink hole with no way to keep up with an ever larger payment you need to keep the alliance. Gifts of units gives next to no influence, regardless of how powerful the unit is, you can't trade resource with them, share maps, etc etc. The idea is great, but terribly implemented. And this can be applied to just about any aspect of the game such as diplomacy, social policy, and golden ages/happiness.


    AI needs work, but the problem would not be as glaring if the military aspect of the game isn't the only part of the game that is most developed and is actually working. I also thought the game played great the first time, but as you played you start to find problems with the games all over, and you start to miss the amount of options and ways to play the game that you had when you played other Civ games.


    I think it is precisely this low expectation of PC games that's really killing the industry. While no game is perfect at launch day, Civ 5 IMO was shipped nearly unplayable. Compare that to the quality you get from console games like Mass Effect 2, I'd start spending my money on console game too. Having a quality PC game at launch is possible, read: Starcraft 2. Despite people's misconception SC2 was NOT developed over 12 years. It is more like 4-5, which I'll agree is longer than most, but the quality of their game and their commercial success is undisputed. I'm not looking for Civ 5 to par SC2, but at the least I want a game that is working.
     
  6. stethnorun

    stethnorun Warlord

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    Wow...I feel like this was written by me. Even with the Fight Club quote. Are you...me?
     
  7. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    Depends if you're me. I think you might be, because I feel like I wrote that response. So... hi. What are we gonna do about that rash?

    Good idea! I'll save mine too, and in the rest of the threads with people crying, we can all just throw copypasta at each other and call it a deal. :lol:
     
  8. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    Companies exist for profit. Good brands sell themselves. Ruining a brand with poor marketing decisions increase short term profit but decrease long term profit. Civ V may turn out to be a shot in the foot.
     
  9. boredatwork

    boredatwork Warlord

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    Was BTS 'Brilliant' because it was always fated to be 'Brilliant' or was it 'Brilliant' because those who didn't think vanilla was that good let the designers know what they didn't like about the game so that when they designed the XP they could respond to people's dissapointments?

    Personally I'm more inclined to believe the latter.
     
  10. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    Maybe, we'll just have to wait and see. But given the numbers so far... probably not. ;)
     
  11. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    Numbers are deceiving. I bought Civ 5, I'm a part of those numbers. I bought it because of the previous releases. Vista was a shot in Microsoft's foot. Fortunately, for them, they were able to save their image with Windows 7. A good expansion may save Civ 5 or Civ 6 will have to save the series. I know I won't be buying either so soon. I might, but after playing a lot of demos.
     
  12. Flavorable

    Flavorable Warlord

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    I totally agree, criticism is essential in developing a better game, but most of these people don't even give actual thought into criticism, and often, they really just want Civ IV, so there aren't many that are helping.

    Ironically, its the ones who love the game who are giving the most valid and well thought out criticisms.
     
  13. Usama84

    Usama84 Chieftain

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    Lets be clear, people who liked civilization 2-4 do not like 5.

    What people dont seem to understand is people actually liked micro-managing the game, not just sitting back and watching cute animations. We liked to see +5 gold in Mecca, +4 in Jerusalem, +2 happiness in Medina, etc... while the basic concepts are still there (except religion), the "spreadsheet data" as it is called is gone... why? Like you see 10 happiness, what the heck does that mean? its so basic, like a civ for kids...

    civ 5 is 1/10th of the game civ4 is, like leaving out spain? almost 1/4 of the world speaks spanish, are they for real?

    This game just gave me a headache...i returned it (defective!) there are red dots on the screen...seriously? and the rivers look like a 2nd grade art student did them...

    i did like the oceans, ranged archer attacks and the hex, but i turned it off when i realized warriors can transform into boats???? wwwwwwwwwwowwww!
     
  14. bernlin2000

    bernlin2000 Prince

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    Don't feed the trolls, their only response is to eat the arm of the hand that had the food.
    If you wanted to be clear, you wouldn't throw out wild assumptions about people who played Civ4 (which I did, for way too many hours). I really enjoy both of them, with CivIV being the more polished (but mildly stale, at this point) product.
    People will harp on the empire-wide happiness system, but can you point to something else that is honestly over simplified? I agree that it is, but that's just one element: combat is more involved than ever, city-states is a whole new system to play with. You still can manage all your city's production and build improvements for certain city specializations. Your other complaints are really minor, in the scheme of things: rivers aren't very pretty (I don't stare at rivers the whole game, but I'm sure they'll be fixed), Spain wasn't included (does the Aztecs not count at all for a Spanish-speaking precursor?), and units can embark on boats now (all this did was remove transport boats, which were an annoying intermediate step to move across continents). You really should have played more before you returned the game: if you really enjoyed CivIV on its most basic level (a phenomenal 4x game) then you would have enjoyed CiV.

    Rushing to judgment is just not a good way to play games: you'll be prone to only play games that fit your exact specifications, and never enjoy things that are fresh and new, because it looks "dumb".
     
  15. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

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    Where is the depth in trading post spam, unlimited war, and useless non-aggression pacts?
     
  16. Beardy Dan

    Beardy Dan Warlord

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  17. Flavorable

    Flavorable Warlord

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    Where is the depth in cottage spam, aesthetics switch for leaders, and broken combat?

    You really simplify it to the point where I wonder how well you can actually play it.
     
  18. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    Look at this game and see how far it goes from your "experimented" opinion of how one plays BTS.
     
  19. Usama84

    Usama84 Chieftain

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    so are you implying civ4 was boring like a spread sheet? i think true civ fans would disagree with that statement...

    civ 5 looks nice, but doesnt have much depth to me... i loved civ 4 BTS, i still miss the artillery from civ 3 and the islamic fanatics from civ 2...
     
  20. Flavorable

    Flavorable Warlord

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    I don't think true civ fans can all be clumped into one opinion. I am a true Civ fan, I agree with that statement, and Civ IV to be an uninspired refinement of Civ III.
     

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