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A little peep under the hood of diplomacy

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Victoria, May 10, 2017.

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  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Because the AI civs reach the modern era faster where Teddies use of pop music has the same effect as computers.... particularly strong as it will double national parks for example.

    If you go for CV often you know how powerful computers are and pretty much a must.... teddy having 2 double all cultures is rather strong. Playing lower level you can race ahead and they just do not catch up to get to the modern age fast enough.
     
  2. VeronicaCardican

    VeronicaCardican Chieftain

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    The table with transition numbers opens up a new view on what our diplomatic modifiers actually do.

    Up till now the mist accepted theory was that the tooltip shows the delta of diplomatic score and reaching certain score thresholds would gradually result in a change in diplomatic stance (mood).

    With the transition being as low as they are (-25 for denounced -> war and -15 for unfriendly -> denounced) even minor negative modifiers would invariably lead to war in a relatively short time.

    I suspect that instead the transition table refers to the numbers given in the diplomatic tooltips and not a running tally of diplo points.

    If this is indeed true, at exactly +/- 0 points, a civ would determine every x turns if they want to change their attitude to friendly or unfriendly because 0 is in the range of neutral-> friendly and also in the range of neutral-> unfriendly. If I get above +15 in total modifiers, the decision would default to becoming friendly. But I risk a demotion back to neutral if I allow my modifiers to go below +10 because that will make the AI consider a transition from friendly to neutral.

    This would also lead to a reevaluation of warmonger penalties. If I don't actually have a baggage of hundreds of negative diplo points from several turns at -20 warmonger penalty, it will be seen as less severe.
     
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  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Yes @VeronicaCardican to me if you have +5 it is +5 total, not a slowly increasing number behind the scenes.
    I have even sat on +11 for quite a while in a friendly state and never got a DOF offer. Then throw them a spare luxury for a short term +8-10 and they are begging to be you friend for a few turns.

    And 100% on the warmonger..., I often will joint war of just formal declare for loot or expansion declare to stop a runaway as the warmonger penalty is perky what is says on the packet... it is not cumulative over time.

    If you look at the table it also explains why people do not stay neutral than much because there are 4 transitions around the 0-5 area
     
  4. historix69

    historix69 Emperor

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    Should AI learn / adapt to player personality in a game?

    If I am strong and AI civ is weak and DoWs me and I eliminate the AI civ, should other AI civs learn from this that they better not DoW me if they are weak or should they stick to their algorithms and roll dices when to DoW me?
     
  5. VeronicaCardican

    VeronicaCardican Chieftain

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    The correct change of behaviour is that they should be more inclined to declare war against you. A successfull conquest leaves you in a position of relative power that tends to get stronger over time because conquering is faster than settling. If they don't force a fight soon, chances are that your civ will onlybecome harder to take down.

    I believe that the warmonger system does this fairly well. It's just that the AI players are not competent enough in matters of war which makes them appear suicidal. But it's not that their diplomacy algorithm is faulty, it's just their martial prowess that's lacking.

    Remember that civ is neither a historical simulation nor a role playing game. Leaders are not supposed to mimic actual kings who fight for survival and prosperity of their nation. They are strategy game players trying to win a strategy board game (Civ's roots are supposedly in Avalon Hill's board game classic "Civilization" from 1980).
     
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  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I guess... if it does not make turns longer it would be nice to have a political memory. Just how much you hold of what is another question.

    The best attack to me against a warmonger is to keep them at war to weary them out. This is where the game fails
     
  7. historix69

    historix69 Emperor

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    In a good strategy game AI should not know if a player is a human player or an AI ... AI might think about a Turing test for human players to find out.
    If AI knew which player is human, an effective strategy would be to gang up against the human player and eliminate him early so that AI wins the game and has some free time.

    Civ games allow cooperation with AI ... Religious, cultural, scientific, diplomatic victories feel like Role Playing. AI can be programmed to try to win but it can also be programmed to try to survive as a minor goal ... In my games AI often is suicidal by DoWing me when they should know that I will eliminate them in response for the DoW and that conquering their cities will make me even stronger ...
     
  8. historix69

    historix69 Emperor

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    Civ 6 gives you numbers for military strength, but additionally usefull for AI to evaluate would be military effectiveness : how many enemy units killed, how many units lost?
    If AI sees that human player has higher military efficiency, it would be a reason to not DoW unless being very far away (beyond reach) (fake war) or in a very strong alliance.
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Maybe a value for the promotion level of troops like 2 promotions would be +20% of strength.
     
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  10. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    Is there any theory that links worth/cost values with either diplo score or modifiers? I mean, let’s take worth as example. The bigger, the better. But is it compared with something? Or is it added / subtracted from something?
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    We cannot know for sure without the code but it seems the worth cost are the weighting given to decisions in either offering them to us or accepting them. So if you take resident embassy all the way Ruth cost does is alter the chance the AI will offer or accept a resident embassy but not change the diplomatic modifier.
     

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