By my own rules this thread should likely get shot down....its likely too dramatic a topic as we move into gold. However, I have done a lot of ranting about CV in recent posts, and I felt I should offer at least some thoughts on corrections. Maybe something in this discussion would be worthy on inclusion. My concerns about CV in summary: Of all the VC, culture is the most dependent on the AI's "good graces" to be effective at. Many of its mechanics require the AI to participate with you to be effective. In other words, with a single press of the "declare war button" from the AI...and CV can become untenable. If you want some more detailed thoughts you can find them here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/new-version-december-18th-12-18.639855/page-9#post-15315202 https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/new-version-december-18th-12-18.639855/page-9#post-15315197 Firstly, I'm going to break down a CV into its components parts (aka the things you need to do to win a CV), and try to isolate the parts I think are good mechanics, the ones that are great, and then ones that are bad. 1) Culture, acquisition of 2 Tier 3 Tenents (Good) - I would prefer X number of tenants over specifically Tier 3, but minor in terms of my concerns. Puts the culture in culture victory. 2) Great Musicians / Great Writers / Great Artists (Good) 3) Shared Religion (Good) - A decently interactive mechanic, requires work for the AI to shut down, gives a nice but not critical bonus. 4) Open Borders (BAD) - Too easy to deny and way too good a bonus with Artistry (and most CVs are going Artistry). 5) Trade Route Tourism (Very BAD) - Double whammy of tourism bonuses and tourism percentage bonus makes ETRs critical to a CV. Requires single minded focus of your TRs on one opponent (regardless of other bonuses). Is far to vulnerable to warfare (either the key civ, or another civ that wars you and then takes out your TRs). And the biggest sin, requires you to actively lose out on your bonuses to TRs from tourism in order to push the CV. 6) Ideology Penalty (BAD) - If there were more ways to get a person to switch ideology with you than this would make sense, but ideologies tend to be pretty set for the big culture players. 7) Diplomats (BAD) - A drop dead boring mechanic (just slap the diplomat in the culture leader), and too vulnerable to warring. 8) Archeology Race (GREAT) - Fun, interactive, a mix of interesting timings and passive aggressiveness with the AIs. 9) World Council (GREAT) - There are a number of fun agendas to both promote (and guard against) to make a CV work. 10) Great Work Heists (Good) - Could in theory be an interesting mechanic for CV players...if it wasn't such a waste of a spy at the moment. But the potential is there. 11) Wonders (GREAT) - Wonders are a fun mix of science, production, and culture....the ultimate in passive aggressive interaction with the AI. Probably the two most important ones are the CN Tower (big bonus to tourism, more so than Cristo I believe), and Great Firewall (defensive, if the culture leader gets this one it may cost you the CV). 12) Buildings (Hotel/Airports/Stadium) (GREAT) - This is a way for builder types to really optimize and get use out of their terrain, natural wonders, landmarks, etc. 13) Tech Bonuses (Good) - A way to accelerate all of the win conditions towards the end, the equivalent exists for the other VC. 14) Earth Citizen Protocol (Good) - A way to ensure CV players can't bum rush the game, and have some investment in science and hammers. Its imo a necessary element to balance CV with other types. 15) Historical Events (Good) - This lever can be hard to really manipulate, but there is some fun interaction to be had here. Further increases the importance of culture and great people. 16) CS Quests (GREAT) - There are a few quests to generate more tourism, creates great and immediate passive interaction with AIs. 17) Defensive Warfare (GREAT) - Ultimately a CV player often has to hold out against superior military forces in order to secure the victory. Ok, so now with this breakdown, in the next post I'm going to discuss some ways to shift the focus away from the BAD mechanics towards the Good or GREAT ones.