A look at Starts

[Stalker0]

So this thread is less about "how to fix X", and more about setting some baselines. Its about the question of how variable starts can be....and also how much influence that has on the game as a whole. Aka when we play a game that seems "insurmountably hard" vs "a walk in the park", how much does the start have to influence that?

My baseline "start" is:

• Two 3 tiles
• Three 1 2 tiles (initial ring is ideal, but if one of them is 2 hex away that's perfectly fine).
• "Standard" Luxes in the area.

This to me is a nice solid start, but nothing too crazy. It lets me grow fast enough, gives me a good base of hammers. I can do a wonder rush off this I want to...but it really depends on the civ and what else is going on with the map. I consider this start is I am playing the true difficulty that I have selected.

Food makes a big difference early, ESPECIALLY if you have low food. It slows down both your early development and reduces settler capability.

Only one 3 tile: +.1 Difficulty
No 3 tile: +.25-.5
No 2 tile: +1.5 - 2 (this is the worst tundra starts, I consider them basically unplayable).

Jungle Starts (assuming mostly jungle): +.5 difficulty
I do think jungle starts are pretty rough right now. It takes a lot of worker turns to really make something out of jungle, and by the time your there others can race ahead of you. I don't mind settling into jungle later, as by then I have the workers to clear it, and universities can start making the tiles attractive. Also while Renewal can make forest starts really good, I think it also makes jungle starts somewhat palatable.

Two Lakes: -.15 Difficulty
Getting two 3 1 tiles early just gives you a very solid start, more than 2 can get somewhat wasted by your need to balance hammers, but I can always make good use of a couple of lakes.

Coral: -.5 difficulty
Personally I think Coral is the best starting resource, assuming your going God of the Sea with it. Its the combination of a solid bonus, very good monopoly bonus, and the speed by which you can acquire that monopoly. I can actually outtech most Immortal AIs with just the Coral monopoly.

Silver: -.35 Difficulty
Similar to Coral, Silver is just a really good bonus when you get their monopoly (I would say the best in the game), and mining luxes are fairly easy to get up. Silver is not quite as fast to get as Coral, which is why it doesn't snowball quite as hard and why it gets a lower rating from me.

Sugar (Forest): -.1 Difficulty
Sugar on jungle is meh, but on forest is a really good yield base at the beginning of the game, and its one that I can ignore with my workers for a long time, freeing me up to work on other tiles. I really like starting on sugar.

Isolated Start: +.3 Difficulty
While there are some advantages here (no military or expansion competition), I generally find the loss of trade (both in deals and TR), the increase in barb activity, and lack of CS bonuses can make this start quite difficult.

 

[CrazyG]

I think the best two luxuries are Wine and Lapis Lazuli (maybe Silver too, but it's initial yields are low and Earth Mother ca be tough to use).

• Wine has the best base yields (31 on grassland, 211 on plains) of the options with a 2 monopoly. It gives on improvement, it's boosted by the temple which is a natural synergy, and it can be used with many pantheons, including the powerful God of the Open Sky. Incense can be strong too but Wine gets the better start since it gives +1 naturally, and doesn't appear in empty desert.
  
• Lapis has good base , gives 12 on improvement, gives 2 with an amphitheater, and the monopoly is quite strong. Cities with Lapis can be behind another city by 3 or 4 in medieval era but will still earn more .
  
• Coral really wants that 1 specific pantheon which puts you in a situation where neither your luxury nor your pantheon give . I think pearls are overall better (2 monopoly and 1 on improvement), but maybe with spy changes they are even.

Coral: -.5 difficulty
Personally I think Coral is the best starting resource, assuming your going God of the Sea with it. Its the combination of a solid bonus, very good monopoly bonus, and the speed by which you can acquire that monopoly. I can actually outtech most Immortal AIs with just the Coral monopoly.

Silver: -.35 Difficulty
Similar to Coral, Silver is just a really good bonus when you get their monopoly (I would say the best in the game), and mining luxes are fairly easy to get up. Silver is not quite as fast to get as Coral, which is why it doesn't snowball quite as hard and why it gets a lower rating from me.

Sugar (Forest): -.1 Difficulty
Sugar on jungle is meh, but on forest is a really good yield base at the beginning of the game, and its one that I can ignore with my workers for a long time, freeing me up to work on other tiles. I really like starting on sugar.

I think you are referring to a 221 sugar right? That must be a plains forest, grassland forest gives the same as Jungle.

Any reason you mention Sugar Forest but not Cocoa or Citrus on forest? It's the same starting yields with a stronger monopoly bonus. Especially with how happiness is at the moment 10% is mediocre. There are a lot of disadvantages to forest plantations too, hard to connect and awkward pantheon choices.

I think Furs generally beat a forest plantation, Furs on forests only start with -1 compared to sugar, but are much easier to improve, give a good pantheon as an option, and give on improvement.

 

[DeAnno]

I find certain types of Desert starts (anything with an oasis and a couple resources on desert hills or floodplains) really strong because you can have mass food in the first couple turns then follow up with Spirit of the Desert. Desert with Incense on some flood plains or Lapiz on desert hills + an Oasis are among the strongest starts in the game.

I feel more and more like sea resource heavy starts are deceptively hard on Deity despite being pretty good for lower difficulties. Those starts really have a way of draining out your crucial unless you go God of the Sea and sort of even then, and it's not always or even often practical to go God of the Sea. An exception is if there are actual Atolls practically anywhere in your radius as those are pretty busted tiles for the capital in particular.

Heavy forest/jungle starts with lots of it for miles around are also extra difficult just for mobility reasons, your units can't get around as fast as they need to and it's a real problem sometimes. You can't get to camps, you can't see anything, your workers and settlers are slower, it's just really bad.