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A military coup in America

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Elta, Sep 10, 2007.

?

See post below

Poll closed Sep 8, 2013.
  1. 1

    111 vote(s)
    70.7%
  2. 2

    21 vote(s)
    13.4%
  3. 3

    10 vote(s)
    6.4%
  4. 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 5

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  6. 6

    3 vote(s)
    1.9%
  7. 7

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  8. 8

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  9. 9

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 10

    7 vote(s)
    4.5%
  1. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    Makes for good fantasy and " what if " but that is about it. Civilian control of the military alone makes it impossible. Hard to have a coup when the gas, beans and bullets run out. That and the fact you have servicemembers who would stomp this thing out asap. Myself included.
     
  2. LightFang

    LightFang "I'm the hero!"

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    The problem with that it is that as a "what if", it's no good if it's completely implausible.
     
  3. Atlas14

    Atlas14 "Sophomoric Troll Master"

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    Zero percent chance right now.
     
  4. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    Makes good reading and a good conversation for sure. Yet it's really not based in reality at all. Like I said, fantasy.
     
  5. Laurencius

    Laurencius Just a tourist.

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    Bush's regime is a bit on the autocratic side:

    Bush has the inherent authority to eavesdrop, imprison citizens on his own declaration, and kidnap and torture anyone.

    Bush has claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution.

    Bush signed a law suspending the right of habeas corpus to persons "determined by the United States" to be an "enemy combatant" in the Global War on Terror. Anyone can arbitrarily be named an enemy combatant.

    I give it only a 1 regarding the chance of a coup in the US. It is more likely that a firebrand military figure with a nationalistic platform may run for president as an independent and win.
     
  6. Atlas14

    Atlas14 "Sophomoric Troll Master"

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    Convincing the army, navy, and airforce, stationed in multiple states, to all be on the "firebrand military figure"'s side would be one amazing feat.
     
  7. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    And with the things we have seen in the past six years. It makes sense. The next president, democrat or republican will have the same rights and I am fine with that as an American. As for autocrats... we disposed of one in Iraq. I've seen what Saddam did to his people firsthand in three tours. Bush looks like Gandi in comparison.
     
  8. CIVPhilzilla

    CIVPhilzilla Reagan Republican

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    0%, .0000001% is vastly overstating the chance.
     
  9. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    In order to properly examine the possibility of military coup occurring in the United States during the next six years, one has to examine the conditions under which a coup could indeed occur. Without going into greater detail, I must say (and this is an uneducated, poorly researched guess) that chances are roughly ten percent.

    'Why?', one might ask. There is a distinct, if not altogether inevitable possibility that a terrorist or other rogue organization will obtain one or more nuclear weapons, smuggle them into the United States and use them to destroy locations in which the President, Vice President, the majority of Congress, and other top government officials are located.

    There are other scenarios in which the conditions could be met for a military coup to occur in the United States, but they are not nearly as likely to occur as the above scenario. For that reason, it is of no consequence to this discussion to point them out. It is only necessary to acknowledge that they exist.

    What are the specific conditions necessary for a military coup to take place in the United States? While I certainly could not list all of them, I can say that among them, the first and foremost would have to be a significant military establishment that is networked throughout the physical nation, the government, and the mentality of the people. This is obviously the case with regard to the United States.

    The second condition that would be necessary is the lack of legitimate government, or the perception of a lack of a legitimate government. If a majority of the Congress, the President, and the Vice-President were all to perish in some kind of attack, then it would be very possible that the people would no longer feel as though a legitimate government existed, even if there were other government officials legally justified in taking power, this could be seen as an illegitimate claim.

    Also, in the panic of the aftermath of what could possibly occur, it is easily understandable that the reconstitution of the government would be delayed and confused, forcing or tempting a military solution. If the delay in reconstituting government is prolonged or the provisional authorities were to abuse their power, this could also prompt a military intervention.

    In truth, there are any number of scenarios that could cause a military coup to occur. It is very hard to determine what the possibilities are of any given one of them actually occurring, but we can all be certain that the conditions do exist. Much like a fire, the fuel is there. The oxygen is there. All that is required is the spark.
     
  10. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    Next 6 years, 0%. But next 50 years, who knows...?
     
  11. Snowball

    Snowball Chauvinist Pig

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    Its not going to happen in the next 6 years. Period.
     
  12. Elta

    Elta 我不会把这种

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    Constitutions can be changed - broken (look at whats going on right now)

    No I am not trying to seem smart I am looking for post of intrest, specificly the two below me were of great intrest.
    Good points, P.S. was beans just a name for a food you threw in? My dad* was in Vietnam and said that beans were well over 50% of his food we deep in enemy territory - mainly because they have a lot of protein and carbs + with some fatty bacon it's all you need really.

    *Ex stepdad. - like a Dad to me thou.
    Good points also.

    I feel satisfied with my 1 vote. :nuke: :king:
     
  13. Colonel

    Colonel Rule of Law

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    We swear an oath to, God, country and President. Soldiers, sailors, airman, and marines are some of the most loyal people in the world and would never violate the US constitution let alone try to take over the government.
     
  14. Laurencius

    Laurencius Just a tourist.

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    First and foremost, we swear an oath to uphold the constitution. If a president begins to erode the constitution, such as Bush has done, a soldier may see it as his or her duty to remove that president.

    A military officer determined to carry out a coup may also draw from the US Declaration of Independence:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

    The oath of a soldier is not an oath of blind obedience. Soldiers need not obey unlawful orders which may cause him to commit a crime of war or a crime against humanity.

    "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him." Nuremberg Trials.
     
  15. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Minor point - you don't swear an oath to God, you swear "so help me God" (or you just solemnly affirm).

    I voted 2. First, I'd just echo John HSOG's post. Circumstances change. Six years can be a long time. Second, there's evidence throughout history of people going against their training and their rules. "Following orders" can be a powerful motivator and I think it is a little less impossible than some of you seem to think that folks (military, police, or government officials) choose to follow their superior's orders than to follow their oath of office/enlistment, particularly when those orders include supposedly opposing an "enemy, foreign or domestic."
     
  16. plarq

    plarq Crazy forever

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    I want you for the US Army!
     
  17. downtown

    downtown Crafternoon Delight

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    I'd say its highly unlikely, maybe a .5 out of 10, but perhaps not impossible. Like others have said, circumstances change....
     
  18. joycem10

    joycem10 Deity

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    A good if dated book that covers this scenario is Seven Days in May. Two movies of the same name adapted the book, one in the sixties with Burt Lancaster as the scheming general and Kirk Douglas as the guy working against him. The other from the nineties had Jason Robards and Forrest Whitaker in the same roles.


    Sounds like an ad for Jericho! Only on CBS...
     
  19. Flak

    Flak vBülletin Förum

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    The people are just far too complacent at this moment in history. It can't last forever I don't think....
     
  20. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

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    To all those saying 0% chance:

    Better hit the history books and think again. The USA actually came very close to a military coup in 1933. So there is something of a precedent here.

    This was a planned coup to overthrown FDR and replace him with a pro-business, fascist dictatorship. It was at the height of the Great Depression, after all, and government was getting a bit too big for its boots.

    It is commonly called "The Business Plot" in history books today. The only thing that stopped it happening was the conscience of their main military man, Major General Smedley Butler. It was funded by The American Liberty League and had support, as well as finance, from The American Legion and its members.
     

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