A Naval Issue

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by manu-fan, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. manu-fan

    manu-fan Emperor

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    Hi,

    One thing that's bugging me right now:

    Why is it that embarked units are so vulnerable?

    Let's take the example of a Modern embarked unit vs a Caravel.

    Why would the Caravel just be able to easily destroy the Infantry? Don't those Infantry have any modern guns to just obliterate those sea-faring Barbarian Buccaneers?

    What about providing stacking at sea, just like Workers/Settlers, etc. on land?

    I've set off an embarked troop on a 3 turn voyage across the sea, and then all of a sudden I get the message - One of your units have been killed. Why is this allowed to happen?

    What do you think should be done about this, or don't you mind it?

    Cheers.
     
  2. Harvestmoon

    Harvestmoon Chieftain

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    I think an embarked unit should have its base defense when at sea, even if it can't attack.
    I've also had modern-era units obliterated in one shot by primitive wooden watercraft. Silliness.
     
  3. Escalate

    Escalate Chieftain

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    Anyone tell me how this change implement post patch gameplay. some kind of new promotion or upgrade? I still can't figure out.
     
  4. Sneaks

    Sneaks Brooklyn Bum

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    I like it. Troop transport has always been a very historically dangerous task, and very often the target of ambush. Whenever I am going to embark units, I make sure to have an escort ship join them.

    Re: the caravel scenario. The caravel is a renaissance warship replete with rows of cannons. Even the most modern landing crafts look like this . Troop transports have always been lightly armed, designed mainly for carrying capacity and speed. During WW2, the UK and US commandeered many passenger ships for troop transport, and they were a common target for enemy craft. I think the game mechanic does a fairly good job of properly weighing the risk of the task.
     
  5. manu-fan

    manu-fan Emperor

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    Say What?

    "Caravels hepled many sailors because of how light it was. Since it was so light it went faster. The caravel generally carried two or three masts with lateen sails, while later types had four masts. Early caravels usually had two masts, displaced around 50 tons, an overall length of 20 to 30 m, a high length-to-beam ratio of around 3.5:1, and narrow ellipsoidal frame (unlike the circular frame of the nau), making them very fast and maneuverable but with somewhat low capacity."

    Even if a Caravel had a cannon or two, there is absolutely no way it would have been able to hit that landing craft you showed LOL.

    Cheers.
     
  6. Sneaks

    Sneaks Brooklyn Bum

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    Nor should modern infantry ever take a lick of damage from charging swordsmen or muskets. However, as I pointed out, there is a historical danger the game attempts to replicate in a manner that still holds some manner of balance.
     
  7. ohioastronomy

    ohioastronomy King

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    It would help if transports had some reasonable speed. It turns logic and gameplay upside-down to have taking a boat be the same as walking. At least trade vulnerability for speed.
     
  8. Gort

    Gort Emperor

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    If it really bugs you you could always play as Askia.
     
  9. Effexor

    Effexor Chieftain

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    I don't mind the embarked unit weakness. The problem that I have with the system is that the AI units are not killed instantly. I was at war with the Iroquois, and their embarked workers, settlers and units all took upwards of 4 attacks from my frigates to kill.
     
  10. Larsenex

    Larsenex King

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    If embarked units are ALWAYS killed when attacked the first time, how are they supposed to earn a promotion to make them more defensive?
     
  11. Dunkah

    Dunkah Emperor

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    Just drive on top of them. Instant kill.
     
  12. yanr

    yanr Chieftain

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    Doh! I was wasting my bombards in my last game trying to kill embarked units. I was wondering why a worker only took 4 damage from my battleship. :p
     
  13. alpha wolf 64

    alpha wolf 64 Byte me

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    what irks me about instant kills is that naval units are far too fast, and the AI automatically knows where any embarked units are. i was preparing an invasion and had an enemy destroyer blockaded his his port city yet 2 turns (and 15 hexes away) he showed up in the middle of my embarked troops having somehow not only splitting my blockade but also getting thru my outer layer of destroyers. pretty much assures that i will only play askia on any world with water.
     
  14. demeryt

    demeryt Chieftain

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    The point is, IMHO, to emphasize that troops being transported by sea are just that, troops being transported. They don't have any strength whatsoever, they need to be protected / escorted.

    The caravel scenario seems an bit "unrealistic", but for gameplay's sake I'd leave it be. Your escorting destroyers should obliterate any enemy caravel before it even gets close to your troops. With the post patch naval strength mechanic it's going to be easy.

    I, for one, love the new embarking / troop transportation mechanic and can't wait to go back and play my archipelago save as soon as I finish writing this post :)
     

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