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A patch will NOT fix this game. Ever.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Dearmad, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. ComradeDavo

    ComradeDavo Formerly God

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    It's too easy to beat. It doesn't understand how to fight war. It doesn't keep it's army upgraded.

    It doesn't understand how to expand. In my current game I found England on an island on their own. Had built only 2 cities when it had room for at least 4, really 5. That was in like 1650CE. It had plenty of time and just didn't expand. That's poor.
     
  2. zarakand

    zarakand Prince

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    That's not true at all. For the people posting on these forums, they might prefer playing with AI mods. Most people playing civ aren't "fanatics" and don't have an issue with the gameplay. This is anecdotal, but my wife plays Civ and enjoys it. She plays on Chieftan and has a lot of fun with the game. She's also not the type of player that will come to this website looking for strategies or to discuss things with other players. Sometimes, I think we forget what a specialized audience we are for this game.

    Yes, I want the mods. Yes, I agree that the AI is terrible at the moment. But, I don't think the majority of Civ 6 players would think that.
     
  3. zarakand

    zarakand Prince

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    Did you try it with any of the major mods like the Community Patch/Vox? Or Communitas? I started with Communitas when Thalisicus was still updating that mod, and it reinvigorated my interest in CiV.
     
  4. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    Isn't that what the difficulty levels are for? Or should everyone be able to beat Deity so nobody feels left out?
     
  5. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Regarding mods it would be a good thing if there even was a SDK/workshop available.

    3 months later and there's still nothing on that front.
     
  6. EpicWestern

    EpicWestern Warlord

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    Somewhat agree that a patch will not fix this game. The AI problems are just too deep.

    Mostly disagree that the game becomes unplayable because of this. If you're randomizing your map and civ, not respinning bad starts, and shoot for a variety of difficulty types, well I wouldn't say the game is challenging, but its at least competitive. I just lost a game to a turn 264 science victory in a game where I thought I had a culture victory locked up. I wasn't caught entirely off guard though, I had five spies mostly on spaceport pillaging duty, the problem is when you have 10-12 different cities to keep sending to, and you can't allow any area of the map to go unscouted.
     
    whyidie likes this.
  7. Cedbird77

    Cedbird77 Warlord

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    You may be right. Maybe I undervalue my money. Or maybe you under value the best Strategy game ever created. I love the series. I will gladly pay another $50 for a kick butt expansion.
    How much does going to a sucky movie cost? For 2 wasted hours of your life?
    Civ 6 gives us so many hours of elation.
    The game needs work. Maybe it should come faster. But let the artist paint. Give them freedom to be creative and continue their excellence.
     
  8. Cedbird77

    Cedbird77 Warlord

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    Lol. Both good points. But I side with the point. Civ 6 is a Super Duper game. If it wasn't . You would not be playing it. And certainly would not be on a forum talking about it.
    I bet most people over trashing it will never leave the Civ series.
    But I respect your right to be over emotional

    Well said
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2017
  9. Dale

    Dale Deity

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    Vox, FfH, Rhyes, and other conversion mods are not the issue.

    But when someone says I have to install Comm Patch or PatchMod or AI+ to make the game playable is the issue.

    Yes casuals are fine with the game. Not the issue.

    The issue is the AI does not get smarter when going up levels, it just gets more cheats.

    The problem is lazy AI creation.

    And whoever talked about prices and profits. From another thread we know they made about $78 mill in sales first 2 months. On average a game makes 20% after sale costs and taxes. A game like Civ costs about $5 mill to make. That leaves them with $10 mill in the pocket. It'll be more now with dlc and xmas sales. Money is not the issue.

    It's lazy AI creation. Focusing on the shiny things rather than the gameplay.
     
    migalhone likes this.
  10. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Well, generally speaking in most games, the AI never really gets better at harder levels. Mostly because the AI is so challenging to code that it basically can never be as good as even a half-decent human player. But above King level, you just can't make it better - you just have to give it more bonuses. The flaw with the AI right now is that even with the bonuses, it's having a hard enough time with some parts of the game that it takes you out of it. On civ 4, I spend months and months learning the game, optimizing my play, and putting all I had into it, and even with that, I could only barely crack immortal difficulty level. But in 6, I can play at Immortal level (admittedly in favorable conditions overall), but I still don't really break a sweat.

    Now, I don't know if it's lazy AI creation where they don't care enough, or it's being cheap, or if they simply ran out of time. One year of a good programmer's time should only cost them about 150k. If they could just throw one more coder who's full-time task is to essentially build the AI, I think the game could be in a pretty awesome state. Whether they would sell enough new copies to pay that back, I'm not sure. But that's all the game really needs right now to get to that level. As someone who just cracked the 200 hour mark, even with its flaws, I still find the game a lot of fun to play. Sure, it could be better, but it's still a lot of fun right now.
     
  11. jprc

    jprc My dog is smarter than me

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    FFH ? ... I have spent a huge part of my happy life playing this mod/expansion ... ah ... Fall From Heaven ... fond memories (sigh...)
    For sure, Derek won´t do a FFH for civ6, but you, Dale, you have/had the reputation to do excellent job in AI moding. I totally skipped civ 5 and just give now a try to civ 6 after a 5 years gap. Are you, a day, jumping into Civ6's AI ?....
     
  12. White Out

    White Out Prince

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  13. Dale

    Dale Deity

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    Unfortunately I do not have the time for it now. 10 years later, wife, 3 kids, 2 jobs........ Back then I was essentially on my own with all the time in the world. :)
     
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  14. zarakand

    zarakand Prince

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    Ah adulthood! When I got into Civ, there was nothing to put off other than household chores. Now, it's see if I can squeeze in an hour after everyone goes to bed or maybe sleep is just more important tonight. I tell you sleep has won so much that I don't know if I can classify myself as a fanatic anymore.
     
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  15. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    AI being hard to program? Fine, I can accept that but the 1upt combat is pretty close to what it was in civ5 yet the AI has become worse at it in civ6. That's what annoys me, like they tried to reinvent the wheel and failed.

    And if you have to let the AI cheat then let it cheat at upgrading units. Declaring war just to throw crossbowmen at my tanks gets old.
     
  16. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

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    Like 99.9% of posts.
     
  17. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

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    Yes I tried communistas and smarter AI and the game was a bit better.
     
  18. Sherlock

    Sherlock Just one more turn...

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    My only question is will it be fixed by Christmas 2017 or Christmas 2018?
     
  19. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    Christmas 2016 actually, if you count mods.

    And as I've said several times already: Does it really matter to you what the base game is like? Why should anything but what you're actually playing matter?
     
    Ferocitus likes this.
  20. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Alright, once more unto the breach. What do you mean by "lazy AI creation"?

    Given your reference to "focusing on the shiny things rather than the gameplay" (and the lack of UI polish would suggest Firaxis indeed didn't prioritise shiny, they prioritised what they considered core systems I'd imagine. Graphics being a part of that), this could mean several things, and I don't want to assume.

    I agree that requiring mods to make a gameplay playable (for you) is not a good thing (wrt. to your purchasing decisions). That reasoning is part of why I never got into Skyrim (or really TES in general). But it's not something that holds for everyone; it's a personal qualifier.

    Let's completely ignore speculation on what games cost to make (mainly because you're ignoring distribution, advertising and licensing costs, but also because it's a boring tangent that will bore everyone, and there are too many assumptions involved. Gameplay is a lot more wholesome to debate).
     

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