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A patch will NOT fix this game. Ever.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Dearmad, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond King

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    So we've reached a point where it's ok to release unfinished products at full price? Firaxis just needs to do half of the job and let other people release the rest of the game? I can't believe some people are still defending this behaviour...
     
  2. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Games are rarely finished, and have been released in a state most developers would consider "unfinished" for decades. Corners have always been cut, bugs have always made it past QA and into release builds.
     
  3. HF22

    HF22 Warlord

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    The idea that mods have fixed the AI isn't supportable. Just ask the AI modders.

    Excellent work has been done with the limited tools, but its just not something fixable by changing values etc.
     
  4. TruthfulCake

    TruthfulCake Prince

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    What would your alternative be, though? For them to release the "unfinished product" at half price, and charge you extra money for each subsequent patch that brings the game closer to the "finished" state? Or for them to delay the release until they have ironed out every single issue there is, which may take literally forever?

    You pay the full price for the functional game and reserve the rights to receive patches for the rest of the product's lifetime, for free. It is interesting how you vilify this practice, as if it is an evil behavior by money-grabbing corporations, when in fact the current approach is the most sensible one.
     
    VicRatlhead5199 likes this.
  5. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

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    So everybody has a task to fulfill: some tell the others all the time _how bad_ the game, the devs, the situation, the world etc. REALLY are, some express their hopes, some begin to improve the current, real existing game (i.e. mods) ...
     
  6. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

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    Suppose we could wait a decade or more for sequels like Blizzard's release schedule....DIII was still kind of stinky on release but I suppose SCII was worth the wait. Or maybe just get a reskinned version of the old game like Sid's Pirates franchise with few to no innovations.
     
  7. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond King

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    Games are rarely finished? What kind of BS is that? Civ6 is the first unfinished game I have bought.
     
  8. Quintus of Mund

    Quintus of Mund Chieftain

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    You don't buy enough games :) have you bought any from Paradox? Like HoI4, Stellaris, EU4?
     
  9. Dale

    Dale Mohawk Games Developer

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    You'll find my values are much more accurate than you think. I've been there done that. And the 20% return on takings is accurate. Again, been thee done that. And no point discussing with you as like you said..... it's a personal qualifier and no minds were ever changed.

    True there is never a time when a game is considered "complete". However, in the 80's and 90's, games were considered 95-99% done when released and only needed a small patch to complete. Nowadays, companys are happy to release games considered 50% done and require years of support just to make the game playable.

    Blake would disagree.

    Like the old days, release the game at 95-99% complete instead of 50% complete.
     
  10. Dale

    Dale Mohawk Games Developer

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    They're the worst at this! They release the game only a quarter done, at full price, then release all the little bits to complete the game at a premium price so you end up paying 10 times the price just for a full game! I refuse to buy PI games on principle because of this disgusting practice.
     
    migalhone and Quintus of Mund like this.
  11. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond King

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    Nope.

    I just bought Darkest Dungeon recently and it was in a finished state. I don't understand why people say most games are released in an unfinished state these days.

    Maybe YOU don't buy enough games.

    If Firaxis and Paradox are doing this all the time, why keep buying games from them and accepting such inacceptable behaviour?
     
    migalhone likes this.
  12. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    I have no idea how accurate your findings are, other than how accurate you think they are. We're driven to present our own opinions in the most favourable light of course, I just think you're giving a specific snapshot of the greater picture to advance how your posts are perceived in-thread. As do we all, but hey, that's why I argue.

    Nah, games were just as bad back then. Hundreds of games, lost to time, because not only do we forget the flaws of the better titles, but we flat-out forget the bad titles completely. Did you know Tomb Raider III only ever received a small amount of patching, and that was to fix an incredibly severe issue with the game? It still has issues every now and then and in general the amount of traversal glitches that exist (for an AA / AAA product at the time) make speedruns of the game without actually cheating quite amusing (i.e. pixel-perfect jumps and ways to scale walls against the specific simplistic environment meshes meant you could jump entirely over certain areas, assuming they didn't hamper progression later on).

    This perception is the one I argue the most against. Games were never finished. Some of them were far, far from being finished. Others were close, sure, but those others won't have had the stakes that, say, Civilisation does.
     
    Quintus of Mund likes this.
  13. rezaf

    rezaf Warlord

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    Gorbles, I'm confused, are you making the argument that Civ6 is one of those bad games we'll forget about? :p

    Cause good games were more finished back in the day - first and foremost because patching was basically impossible in the era before the internet. Hardly anyone did the thing with mail-ordering game updates or had access to BBSes.
    Civ6 is technologically speaking very polished (few graphic glitches, crashes to desktop and the like), but clearly little effort went into balancing, less than little in the UI and ... yeah, we all know about the state of affairs when it comes to the AI.
     
  14. Dale

    Dale Mohawk Games Developer

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    You are equating the lack of attention min-maxing in TR3, a way the game was never intended to be played by the designers, to the dismal failure that the every-game standard play AI in Civ6 is? You are desperate now. :lol:
     
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  15. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    Released on hard media, so they had to be nearly "complete".
    How did you apply patches to games released in the 1980's?
     
  16. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Oh, no, the bug I was referring to was a lot more severe. There are also still unpatched save-state bugs, issues with audio looping, and disparity between console and PC versions (bad disparity in terms of stability).

    But yes, fixate on one part of my post to the exclusion of all else. I'd thought we could do some useful debate here, but again, the agenda wins out I guess.
     
  17. HF22

    HF22 Warlord

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    Huh? Who is Blake & why does he disagree? I'm lost.
     
  18. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    That's the thing though, I actually thought IV was mostly worse off with each expansion, as most of the expansion features seemed tacked-on, poorly done, or just strange (Great Generals and unique buildings I liked, most other features added in expansions I didn't much care for, not including new Civs/leaders of course). Patches, on the other hand, were a good thing for IV.

    But mods for IV were even better.

    That's the "patch" that will "fix" the game, imo. When the SDK/Workshop hits.
     
  19. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    Everyone's values are different, and civ is more complex than most games. For instance, my preferences include greater 'realism' --I don't buy into the "gameplay is always more important than realism" philosophy-- and little demand for quick turn-time, as I spend most of my free time reading and playing civ (and not in a rush to complete a game, my games often take 2 weeks to play).

    I don't mind if Firaxis cannot get the game totally 'right' out of the gate, play testers aren't going to catch everything (though yes, I am a bit peeved re some of the UI gaffes). Early game adopters greatly enhance the play testing and the future of the game through feedback and their financial contributions. The game will mature.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
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  20. Dale

    Dale Mohawk Games Developer

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    Patches came on disks on various magazines. Or spread via BBSes. Pffft kids these days.

    Blake was a CFC fan who fixed Civ4 AI, and then was paid by Firaxis to implement it.
     
    Menzies likes this.

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