A peaceful way to get a Great Leader !!

Mîtiu Ioan

Deity
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Jan 30, 2002
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Timisoara, Romania
I sometimes feel that will be nice to get a Great Leader in a peaceful way !! Because I like peacefully games and will be no way to obtain a leader via a battle...

What avout the ideea to get a GL when one of your cities or your civ get a number of Cultural points.

And this peaceful leader may be use to hurry up a wonder or to discover a new tech - as difference from a military GL which may hurry up a improvement or build a army with all the units veteran !!

What's your opinion about this ??

Regards
 

enelrad

Chieftain
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Dec 16, 2001
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Toronto
This is supposed to be about more than war and the GL is the only rush for wonders available. I sense a dichotomy of purpose in the planning.
 

Magnus

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Great Leaders are there to help out civs who are at war and can't use production in their cities for Wonder production (too busy building units). Peacenik civs don't need any more help than they already are getting by avoiding war and building infrastructure.
 

Cerryl

Warlord
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Kansas City, Missouri
How else does a leader become great if not through battle?

I've always felt that Wonders shouldn't rushed at all.
 

seghillian

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Jan 28, 2002
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Newcastle
It would be nice to get GL's for something other than warfare, although I think some brainstorming is required to decide on the best ideas for exactly how. (Random chance on first build of a new improvement in your empire? Random chance on reaching particular point values culturally? Etc Etc)

In a historical sense, there have been many great contributors to the progress of civilization who were not generals or politicians (Da Vinci, Einstein, Picasso, Mozart, Confucious, Buddha, Shakespeare, Sid Meier! etc etc)

For those who don't like this idea it could be made a switchable option at game start - to keep everbody happy. :)
 

etj4Eagle

ACME Salesman
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Columbus, OH
I agree it would be nice to get a GL through peaceful means. However, this will require a fair bit of work in making sure to get it right and have it well balanced. You don't want to have these GL running around everywhere. It will have to be probability based and also need to represent a large dedication of effort as well.

Some ideas might be the later cultural expansions, when you have built x many libraries, cathedrals, temples. The hardest part here is going to be the gameplay balancing code.

A peacefully generated GL should work in a similar manner to the nodes in SMAC. Ie they finish of a wonder for you are give you a tech (or two). Along the lines of military GL, you may also want to create a small wonder that gets enabled by using a GL for research that increases the chance of getting these GL's. Maybe call it the "Research Institute" or something (this small wonder should also be worth a nice amount of cultural points as well).
 

Mozenwrath

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Sep 22, 2001
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I brought this up already in the "patch suggestions" thread. I don't expect you trail through the mountains of junk in there though so here's the jist of it; Cities with a high amount of science output would have a chance of producing a great scientist. He (or she) could either get a free advance or build a scientific academy which would raise scientific research in the city it is built in. Cities with a lot of culture (per turn, NOT cumulative) would produce great artists who could either advance a city one culture steo or build an Artistic Institute (or something) which would raise culture per turn by say... 20%. Obviously, the peeps at firaxis would need to do a lot of fine tuning to the idea but I thinks it would be nice...
 

infanta

Chieftain
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Jan 30, 2002
Messages
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leaders are for the warmongers who can't really maintain a war footing and produce wonders, even then its hit or miss whether you will be able to produce them

peaceful civs can easy build wonders without the need for leaders so i got no problem with the curent system

in other words, i agree with magnus
 

SteveLS

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 22, 2001
Messages
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Because of your impressive Culture, your civilization produced a Great Leader, Britney Spears!

Yuck. I'll pass thank you.
 

Ironikinit

Prince
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Michigan
Well, I don't I favor the idea, but you know how the computer awards you palace points, right. I reckon that some of those are for peaceful achievements, like highest culture or population, and each time those happen you could have a chance to get a peaceful leader.
 
Joined
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Messages
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:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

As for the point that peacenicks don`t need great leaders since they "save themselves the war" - what about the territory gain that a peacenick doesn`t get? What about the techs he doesn`t get for peace? What about the gold he doesn`t get for peace???????

infanta: Id`d like to see you build wonders peacefully on deity!
 

Chaos

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Oct 26, 2001
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Noway! Leaders should only be recieved through war. Its doesn't seem realistic otherwise. Why would leaders appear suddenlty if you were scientifically or culturally advanced?
 
Joined
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Originally posted by Chaos
Noway! Leaders should only be recieved through war. Its doesn't seem realistic otherwise. Why would leaders appear suddenlty if you were scientifically or culturally advanced?

Einstein might be an example of a scientific leader. Speads up research when you have extra smart guys.
 

gpsmith

BOFH
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Dec 19, 2001
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Oxford UK
I agree...

There should be more rewards for the peaceful civs, and gaining a Great Leader is one of them. It is possible to have a Great Leader through peaceful means, as stated by seghillian.

I appreciate the need for war in Civ3, to gain valuable resources or to defend yourself against an aggressor. But, it seems that war is the only option for some people.

Incidentally, peaceful civs don't always spend all their time building non-military units, I spend a lot of time trying to build a huge defensive army to protect my interests.

So, give peace a chance, and let's get rewarded with a GL for our troubles.
 

Cerryl

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The rewards of a peacful civ is being able to use a representative govt. type easily. Even with Sufferage/JS Bach, a prolonged war with casualities is too much of a pain on Rep/Dem types.
 

Ironikinit

Prince
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Sometimes I think that wars aren't nearly devastating enough. The world wars pretty much set some European countries back years and years, even the winners lost. Of course, it doesn't really sound like a lot of fun to have to avoid war to the very best of your ability or face your civ committing suicide.
 

once_an_emperor

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Jan 28, 2002
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London, England
For what it's worth I totally agree!

Selecting suitable mechanisms to trigger a peaceful GL is clearly a problem though.

If we/Firaxis/whoever could identify 5 or so 'peaceful' criteria, your civ could be evaluated against one of them (randomly selected) at the end of a game era...

Possible criteria:
- literacy rate / life expectancy (which I assume are tied to number of libraries, aquaducts per city) which you currently see (only?) at the end of the game.
- the number of cities you have in the top 5 cities in the world.
- X number of civilization advances
- Culture score
etc etc etc

If I wasn't so unsuccessful about getting GLs from battle I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about it!

:)
 

Troyens

Warlord
Joined
Jan 6, 2002
Messages
195
Originally posted by Cerryl
How else does a leader become great if not through battle?

I've always felt that Wonders shouldn't rushed at all.

And how many battles did FDR, Ronald Reagan, Thomas Jefferson, or even Lincoln fight in??? Or Catherine of Russia, Gandhi of India, Elizabeth of England, etc.


Rushing Wonders? Maybe yes; maybe no. But the entire production of hundreds of shields should NOT go down the toilet if another civ beats us to the punch and builds it first. Some (not all) should go to Wealth.
 

Publius

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A peacefully-generated GL is an interesting idea, but he would have to be a different entity from the Great Leaders already in the game. Maybe call it a "Great Thinker". Problem is that GLs can make armies. I don't think Michelangelo, Mozart, or Einstein ever raised an army. If Great Thinkers were inlcuded, then only let them rush wonders, and limit the Great Leaders to building armies.
 

Psychlone

Architect of Aggression
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Dec 1, 2001
Messages
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Because of your impressive Culture, your civilization produced a Great Leader, Britney Spears!

Well, what about a Ronald Reagan? He was a cultural figure and then a great leader. IMO he was arguably the greatest US president of the 20th century. :D
 
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