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[BTS] A proud history of failed Deity games?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Pangaea, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    May as well start a diary of these :cry:

    So, err, what do you do when next to a normally peaceful neighbour and...

    Notice the lovely fist and date:




    Well, hello there. You want to meet our blacksmith I assume? He can only make clubs and bows. You want to tutor him, perhaps? :hmm::please:

     
  2. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    I still recall a 20 hour game once where I accidentally voted the AI to an AP victory.


    Jeez, how did that Axe get City Raider II on T49?
    Any DOW before 2000BC is instant loss.
    You got screwed!


    If you wish to keep going, it might be possible with voodoo.
    Gift Edirne to Churchill since he has 3 cities.
    DOW Churchill.
    Move Warrior to 1S1E of Edirne after it teleport east towards your capital.
    On the next turn, do nothing. Hope the 4 Axes don't move into Edirne.
    Then next turn, 2 turns after the DOW, take Edirne with Warrior.
    Churchill will talk ceasefire/peace due the the 10 war success from the city capture and 2 turns of war (iRefuseToTalkWarThreshold = 8), so give him Edirne for 10 turns of peace. :cry:
    You don't have nearly enough power ratio with Churchill to get a Cease Fire with only 10/0 war success? (pretty sure)

    If you have Bronze Working, go ahead and whip Edirne to Size 1 with a Scout whip if you have both Bronze Working and Hunting before the gift and DOW.
    Giving a Size 2 city to an AI for 2 turns that can whip an Archer is very dangerous.

    With this, you might be able to continue on with 2 cities and an Annoyed neighbor with axes, but even that feels hopelss. :hmm:
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  3. Olafeson

    Olafeson Prince

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  4. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    I'll try to explain as best as I understand it.
    The two most important resources on AI war decisions are:
    1) DanF5771
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/is-there-any-logic-to-an-ai-dow.286180/page-5#post-7190899
    2) Niklas
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-07-smurkz.271903/page-20#post-6806299
    Spoiler :
    I am a bit fuzzy on if the AI rolls 1 time each turn for war or 3 times for war each turn (Total War, Limited War, Dogpile War if a war is already going on?), in which case the warmongers don't have a 2% chance to plot war each turn, but a 6% chance!
    I am also not sure how a demand being rebuked triggers war plotting and what rolls are involved there. :dunno:


    To get a turn 49 DOW, land target had nothing to do with it.
    It is merely the AI starting to roll for war super early because they became able to build 2 units that can attack in their capital. (Usually Spear and Axe)
    Horse is not enough for an AI to start plotting war because it only unlocks Chariot, 1 of 2 units needed to attack and thus start plotting.
    Basically, any AI that gets Copper hooked up (and has Hunting) will start rolling for war and then go down DanF's decision tree.

    Deity AI can do this extremely early with super fast Bronze Working, starting with 2 workers and 2 cities, and hooking up bronze with mine+roads fast because worker improvements for Deity AI get done at double speed. (Deity AI can road in 1 turn, farm in 3 turns, pasture in 2 turns, and chop in 2 turns)

    Warriors, Archers, and Longbows are not considered offensive units.


    Later on towards the midgame, diplomacy (annoyed/cautious/pleased) and land target (long borders) will influence DOW choices.
    Being a land target puts you at the front of the list for war targets usually! (unless you have good diplomatic relations with the warmonger)
    Going through the war checks on the 1st or 2nd pass as a land target means the power ratio checks are much higher.
    Plus, when you get put on the valid war target list, each land plot shared with the warmonger makes you appear to be a juicier target.


    At the start of the game, being selected to get DOW'd is almost pure luck.

    As near as I can tell, Pangaea made it to pass 3 on the Total War decision tree since Churchill had no valid land targets, and was placed onto a list of war targets with the other AI who failed the Attitude-NoWar roll (ANW) and then also failed the Power ratio check.

    The power ratio check for Pass 3 was Churchill would only attack someone with less than 1.5*Churchill's power (soldiers)*MaxDistPr = 60 for Churchill
    1.5*Power*0.60 = 0.9*Power, or 90% of Churchill's soldiers. (If Aggressive AI is turned on before the game starts, 90% gets multiplied by 4/3rd's and Churchill would be willing to attack if the target has less than 120% of Churchill's Soldiers or a 1.200 Power Ratio)

    I'm certain Pangaea had less than a 0.900 power ratio with Churchill, so he failed the power ratio check.
    He also failed the previous ANW check which was a 70% chance to be disregarded as a war target for being Cautious with Churchill. (NoWarProb_Cautious = 70)
    Pangea got really unlucky here!

    Then Churchill ran down the list of best possible victims who failed both the diplomacy attitude check and the power rating check and chose Pangaea.

    Churchill only has an iMaxWarRand of 200, so a 0.5% chance to start plotting war each turn once he has copper hooked up? :hmm:



    Anyway, it was amazing for Churchill to get Bronze so early, even more amazing for him to start plotting right away, and just bad luck that Pangaea failed the 70% chance to be disregarded for being Cautious with Churchill.
    The Power Rating check was always going to be lost, but other AI might have been below 0.900 with Churchill too due to only having Archers and not teching Bronze Working yet.

    There might have been 1 unlucky AI who also failed both the power ratio check and the 70% chance to be disregarded for being Cautious. :dunno:
    If it came down to 1 unlucky AI + Pangaea on Pass 3, then the juiciness of the target was considered and Pangaea was picked because his capital was closer or his cities were settled closer together than the 1 unlucky AI.

    For info on the AI values, I always refer to DanF's complete AI XML values spreadsheet.
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/when-a-civ-wants-to-trade-maps.358626/#post-9030955
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
    krikav, elmurcis, Pangaea and 2 others like this.
  5. Olafeson

    Olafeson Prince

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    @Kaitzilla

    thank you very much for the informative answer. I think i got the basic concept of how the mechanic works now. Indeed unlucky for Pangaea. No Gustav Gans in his deity games, always Donald Duck.:rolleyes:
     
  6. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Thank you for the fantastic answer, @Kaitzilla.

    As an aside, I've spent all my saving on lottery tickets. I'll buy you all a round of new apartments :D
     
    Kaitzilla likes this.

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