A question on villages

[jeffreyac]

Hi guys,

Quick question - if you 'explore' a village via your cultural borders expanding over the tile the village is on, is there any difference between this and popping the hut with a unit? If not, is it as if a regular unit explored the hut, or like a scout (with the potential for better results?)

I realized this past game that I'd been going under the assumption that exploring huts with a unit (even a basic unit, like a warrior) was better than exploring huts with border expansion, but I can't figure out why I thought that was true...

 

[bestsss]

culture borders yield potentially the best results unless you want extra experience for your scout (to unlock heroic epic.. weird but possible).

scouts/explorers don't get hostile villages, culture borders don't get hostile villages and don't get experience (obviously).

 

[ICNP]

I thought scouts could get hostile villages, but at very low rates?

 

[Wlauzon]

culture borders yield potentially the best results unless you want extra experience for your scout (to unlock heroic epic.. weird but possible).

scouts/explorers don't get hostile villages, culture borders don't get hostile villages and don't get experience (obviously).

Which is why you never pop a hut with a unit when the city borders will soon expand to take out the huts.

In one recent game, I got 3 techs just from border expansion. Obviously pretty rare as it is not common to get huts space that close, but two is not all that uncommon. I forget the exact odds with border expansion, but I think it is about 2x as likely as a Scout.

 

[Willem]

I thought scouts could get hostile villages, but at very low rates?

No, Scouts will never pop any hostile units.

 

[Willem]

Which is why you never pop a hut with a unit when the city borders will soon expand to take out the huts.

I disagree with this. Quite often popping a hut early, before the cultural expansion does it, will give you something that is far more beneficial at that time than simply waiting. For instance, you might get XP for your unit so it will be more effective at exploring afterwards. Or you might get a valuable tech that will help you out right away. For example, getting Mysticism from an early hut allows you to go for Buddhism or Polytheism. If you wait for your borders to expand, it will be too late to try and go for them.

 

[conception]

The biggest problem that I see in waiting for cultural borders to pop a hut is that another civ's unit might pop that hut before you get there. Is it worth that risk to wait?

 

[Sisiutil]

The biggest problem that I see in waiting for cultural borders to pop a hut is that another civ's unit might pop that hut before you get there. Is it worth that risk to wait?

I would say no. One of the best things about popping a hut, even for less-than-ideal results, is that you have at least prevented one of your rivals from obtaining any benefit from it. I have had huts on my doorstep "stolen" by a rival's Scout, and it's infuriating.

 

[Wlauzon]

The biggest problem that I see in waiting for cultural borders to pop a hut is that another civ's unit might pop that hut before you get there. Is it worth that risk to wait?

That might be a problem on small maps with many civs but otherwise it is not that hard to get the first 1-2 border expansions. While popping a nearby hut with a scout can't hurt, it is possible to get up to 3 hostiles if popped with a warrior.

 

[jeffreyac]

I would say no. One of the best things about popping a hut, even for less-than-ideal results, is that you have at least prevented one of your rivals from obtaining any benefit from it. I have had huts on my doorstep "stolen" by a rival's Scout, and it's infuriating.

I've done this to AI civs before... Never had it done to me - but, as I said, I've always popped huts as soon as I see them. The question came to me as I had a hut that would have been right next to my first city (popped as soon as I settled in my chosen location) and I actually ended up delaying settling until I got my warrior over there. Now that I think about it (and after all the above input) I see what a poor choice that was!

 

[Patak]

When I pop the huts with borders I only get money. I prefer to take a risk and get a tech if possible.

 

[Mr_Anderson]

When I pop the huts with borders I only get money. I prefer to take a risk and get a tech if possible.

Money and tech are interchangeable, without large reserves of cash you wont be able to expand, and your tech slider will be moved down sooner as you do so. You may well find that a pop of 127 gold will give you, essentially, several techs a turn or so faster than otherwise making the difference semantic at best. However a free tech immediately can be extremely beneficial so it's really the best pop if it turns up something you really need. Obviously lower levels aside.

 

[Patak]

I am not afraid of going down with the tech slider (It is the same if I have 5 cities and tech slider on 40% geting 35 bulbs or 2 cities with tech 100% givnig me 35 bulbs). Money is usefull for upgrading warriors to axes and rushin an oponent. Still getin a free tech somehow feels like gift from heven.

 

[fed1943]

From my experience hut's output also depends on the turn they are explored and the direction the
scout (or any unit) came from.

 

[Fabio GP addict]

From my experience hut's output also depends on the turn they are explored and the direction the
scout (or any unit) came from.

Which way do you think the direction counts ?

 

[Admiral8Q]

Which way do you think the direction counts ?

That's B.S. The thing about Civ4 is that you make the decision on what to do next. What your goals are. For example, I ran out of gold/science, but I had excellent production, so I declared war on my neighbor and sent my workers to build cottages. There is no "perfect" way to do anything. It all depends on your strategy and your situation.

 

[Willem]

From my experience hut's output also depends on the turn they are explored and the direction the
scout (or any unit) came from.

There's no way that direction has anything to do with it. There is a certain random element to some of them though so the turn can make a difference. The ones with the better rewards aren't random however, you'll get the same results each time.

 

[dirtyparrot]

culture borders yield potentially the best results unless you want extra experience for your scout (to unlock heroic epic.. weird but possible).

scouts/explorers don't get hostile villages, culture borders don't get hostile villages and don't get experience (obviously).

I remember a discussion a while ago that someone (might have been Obsolete) got a hostile village from a border pop. I think that you're safe if you have only 1 city. The thing is of course that huts are generally gone by then. So, it's extremely rare to see that situation arise.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=339835&page=4

Just re-read, you can't get hostile village from border pops. I guess my memory failed me.

 

[kochman]

culture borders yield potentially the best results unless you want extra experience for your scout (to unlock heroic epic.. weird but possible).

scouts/explorers don't get hostile villages, culture borders don't get hostile villages and don't get experience (obviously).

This is important because you are getting rid of 2 of the lamer things you can get...
So, at higher levels, you will either get a map, gold, or a tech... increasing your odds to get a tech is always smart of course.
The risk... the AI could come and grab it before your border pops.

 

[kochman]

There's no way that direction has anything to do with it. There is a certain random element to some of them though so the turn can make a difference. The ones with the better rewards aren't random however, you'll get the same results each time.

That's not true. You do get different stuff depending on your angle of entry. I used to do that a lot in my earlier days because I wanted a huge tech lead... cheating, what have you, I liked to play that way back then.
Direction definitely plays a role. Its not a mapable role, it basically just forces a different number from the RNG.
I have, on the same turn, approached from different angles, due to re-loading, and gotten different things.
Also, if you do anything to force a RNG after a reload, before taking the hut, you will get something different, because the RNG has to pick a new number.