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A question!?!?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gustavus Rex, Oct 24, 2015.

  1. Gustavus Rex

    Gustavus Rex Prince

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    How many turns before settling your capital do a religious pantheon compensate for?

    Example 1: You move your warrior and find Uluru on plains with no visible luxuries within borders. It will take you 2-3 turns to move your settler to the location.

    Example 2: You move your warrior and find Uluru om plains with two sheeps within borders. It will take you 2-3 turns to move your settler to the location.

    Example 3: You move your warrior and find Mt Sinai in desert with no visible luxuries within borders. It will take you 2-3 turns to move your settler to the location.

    Example 4: You move your warrior and find Uluru with four deer within borders. It will take you 2-3 turns to move your settler to the location.

    This is something I struggle with. Please discuss and feel fre to make more examples!
     
  2. vanatteveldt

    vanatteveldt Emperor

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    Shooting from the hip, I would not move to #1 or #3, because the faith is not worth a capital without any useful resources. I would build the cap and put down an expo there, should still get me the religion in most cases.

    #2 and #4 really depend on what I can get now and what I can see near the NW.

    Concrete situations (aka screenshots) would make discussion a lot easier...
     
  3. Gustavus Rex

    Gustavus Rex Prince

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    Every single game is very situational. That is why I want to keep this discussion somewhat rough... Is a (any) faith-pantheon worth the cost of reasonable movement?
     
  4. vanatteveldt

    vanatteveldt Emperor

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    I'm not sure why you focus on a "religious pantheon" or "faith-pantheon". A non-faith pantheon can also be extremely useful, e.g. the generic god-king or the more situational sun god / goddess of the hunt.

    The problem with such "rough" discussions is that they tend to devolve to "it's situational". Sure, getting a pantheon is worth reasonable movement, but is that 1 turn? 2? And what else do I lose/gain by moving?
     
  5. Gustavus Rex

    Gustavus Rex Prince

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    True. I do not, and agree. The question is including all panteons. Im a huge fan of Sun God myself and I have built many Deity-shrines to get it. :lol:
     
  6. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    I think options 2 and 4 are worth moving for.

    The other situations I would build scout, scout, settler and grab that wonder quickly.

    But yes if you had an early faith mountain then choosing a faith pantheon is kinda wasteful unless maybe its desert folklore and you are doing sacred sites...
     
  7. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    I think Option 4 is by far the best
     
  8. Carazycool

    Carazycool Warlord

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    I think Faith pantheons stacking on top of a faith mountain is NOT wasteful. Imagine how many buildings/units/missionaries/great people you could buy with that faith. Choose tithe and spread your religion mercilessly and use your humongous economy to buy whatever you want.

    Certainly, you could choose a different pantheon too and try a more balanced approach. There is fun to be had in many different directions.
     
  9. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Farmable river tiles > Production tiles > Mountain > any other consideration, IMO
     
  10. vanatteveldt

    vanatteveldt Emperor

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    I didn't say it wasn't. The only thing I say is that the reason to get a faith national wonder is not necessarily to play a religious game - it might just as well be to get a quick advantage that you leverage to play some other game. And if you want a religious game, getting Uluru with an expo rather than your cap might be just as well.
     
  11. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Religion in this game is, let's face it, massively overrated...
     
  12. vanatteveldt

    vanatteveldt Emperor

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    Well, if people can win deity with their hands tied behind their back, they can also win it while pursuing a religious strategy :)
     
  13. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Well obviously :)

    I think think Founder beliefs should be MUCH MUCH stronger so that whoever can found does indeed get a major advantage. 5 religious available between 8 nations seems a bit eh
     
  14. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    Tithe is incredibly strong, certainly "broken" compared to the others. Since the AI never picks it, the human almost always gets the ideal choice. This may be "boring", but it's certainly not weak at all.

    The other founder beliefs are all rather poor, which is sad. +2 Faith for every foreign city is good if you'll have at least a few city states and neighbouring cities converted, Church Property is essentially a weaker form of Tithe, but still better than most other options. World Church could be extremely sweet. sadly it was not meant to be.
     
  15. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I would guess that it is maybe 1 in 50 games where you start within sight range of a NW. I was going to say 1 in 100, but the DCL has had 1 in 43 (as far as I know). So I think obsessing over the fine details of OP is silly -- the situations are just too hypothetical.

    If I spot a NW on T0, even a poor one, I am going to put my cap there -- because the opportunity is too rare not to play with it!

    There have been a few good threads about how many turns to wander versus how much payback to expect for your trouble.
     
  16. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    Eh the crappy Natural Wonders like Barringer Crater, Grand Mesa, Old Faithful, Rock of Gib, Cerro de Potosi & Krakatoa aren't worth moving your settler for.

    Neither is Fountain of Youth - you can pick it up later.

    Mt Sinai is a maybe - You would only work it for 2-3 turns so you could get an early pantheon - maybe God King (if the rest of the dirt looks pretty poor for pantheons...). There is no way you'd want to put an early citizen on Mt Sinai for a further 25+ turns to get a religion which is as most admit already highly overrated. For an expo though the cost of doing this is much less.

    For Spain it's obviously better but still the only one of those that is clearly worth moving your settler to would be Rock of Gib so you get access to a 4 food tile. The other wonders are still too crap to sacrifice growth for. Grand Mesa is a maybe - if you plan on building lots of early settlers then it's probably handy.

    You're still better of in this case to build an early expo to work that mountain and leave your capital free to focus on more important things.


    The other thing is if you move your settler a few tiles you could put your capital out of easy reach of luxuries and other good hidden strategic resources. Every spawn location is more-or-less coded to give some decent dirt.

    I think in most cases it is best to build a settler after your opening scouts to take the Wonder.
     
  17. BurnBabyBurn

    BurnBabyBurn Warlord

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    I have gotten Lake Victoria for my 2nd city(nice) Mt. Kil..and the production from Solomons are worth it. Early on... though not worth more than wonderful city locations. No Wonder beats an epic city location with lots of salt~hills~pastures~wheat farms... In 100 turns that will be an epic city(1 mountain is okay but a huge range that blocks your growth is not worth the obers* unless you plan to win early...the limitation in population and production mountains cause defeats the 50% Science but an early victory is different) you don't need the extra pop unhappiness

     
  18. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    This. A salt tile with a mine is better than nearly half of the natural wonders, arguably even the GBR.
     
  19. Phukit

    Phukit Warlord

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    Clearly not all NW are created equal but for FoY i am moving,especially since you dont have to work the tile to get the bonus, that early happiness is great for quick expansion and all game long.

    Krakatoa yes please....basically an early half academy.

    Kilimanjaro and Fuji and Lake Victoria im moving for also.For most of the others ill just try to nab it with an expo.
     
  20. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    FoY is completely useless for capital, since it can't be worked and waste a hex. You're much better off to found first expo close to it. Krakatoa is pretty much hit or miss, most of the time it's in the middle of ocean and you can't really work it either. Even if you can work it, you need a large enough city to offset lack of food.
     

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