A quick guide to the Mongols.

Discussion in 'CivRev - Strategy & Tips' started by CrimsonEdge, Sep 2, 2008.

  1. CrimsonEdge

    CrimsonEdge Warlord

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    This little guidette is going to be leading up to my bigger and better Mongol guide but is mainly there for those who don't like to read a bunch of boring stuff about number crunching. My big guide will feature all sorts of fun pictures of me playing and maybe even a video of me yelling something about a Keshik rush. Who knows!

    Until then, you'll have to settle with how to actually use these guys.

    First, lets examine these most awesome of traits.

    1. Mongols receive 50% extra trade from captured cities. Sadly, this doesn't count for the Barbarian cities, but this matters very little anyway. The sheer number of cities you have will mean that the bonus will only really count for 30% of your cities in a typical game, and 50% for most games.

    2. Ancient Age - Barbarian villages captured rather than destroyed. This is it. This is why you play the Mongols. Every game will have you racing to grab as many Barbarian cities as possible. In the early game, quantity>quality. You can't use the majority of the resources available, and the time spent building up those early cities means you'll have an early production advantage which is, again, crucial in the early game.

    Alternatively you could use these cities to rush a technology, such as Horseback Riding (as I will go over shortly) or Mathematics. Or you could use them for gold (early currency) to rush-buy Keshiks.

    3. Medieval Age - +1 movement to Cavalry. Keshik. Rush. 5 techs and you get this. That's it. You can get this incredibly early if needed, although it only really matters after you've beaten your first civ. Because of this, it's not crucial to devote to aging up quickly, however, I will go over why Keshiks are just plain ol' great later.

    4. Industrial Age - +2 Production from Mountain squares. Situational like the majority of these. It's generally a good idea to build one city (yes, build, you can build cities as the mongols!) near a mountain range. Mountains usually come in groups of 3 and 4, and, as a result, you can have a ton of production in a city if it has some plains around it. Luckily, mountains usually mean plains as well. Usually. Again, situational like most of the other tile based bonuses that other civs get.

    5. Modern Age - Communism tech. See this right here? This is how you win games. By this point, if you haven't won, you will. You will have more cities than any other civ (100% guaranteed) and can simply steam roll them at this point.

    6. Keshik. The Keshik are the Mongols special unit. It has the exact same stats as a Legion except that it can move two spaces (3 when you reach the Medieval age). The draw back is that they take 20 hammers instead of 10. What does this mean exactly? Well, you can have twice as many Legion units but you can move your Keshiks twice as far (3 times as far at medieval) per turn. This means that while you may have fewer in number, you will be able to get to the enemies cities quicker, or react to an attack faster. Mobile defense is great with Keshiks.

    The Keshik is the only reason the Mongols actually work. The quick mobility between city to city means that you can take out more, faster. While Legion units share the same stats, the (up to) 3 times speed is worth more than the 10 extra hammers they cost.

    No math here, that's for the other complete guide (which will feature a link to this page!).

    So, what does all of this mean, exactly? Well, you'll have more cities than you'll actually use. It's not a bad thing. You have the cities you don't use generate settlers to pump up your bigger and better cities. This should be your game plan once you have taken over one of the enemies capitals. Pump up your two capitals with your inferior cities.

    Alternatively, you could pull a semi-Tokugawa and ship your mass settlers to the islands of the world and pump out a few good research or gold cities. It doesn't matter really, pick your poison. The sheer number of cities you have mean you'll have plenty excess population to cherry pick where you want your super cities to be located. Don't be turned off by the fact that you get diminishing returns on your settlers. Start focusing on another city.

    By doing this, I've had 5 20+ population cities by the end of the Industrial Age without issue on Deity. I had two of my enemies capitals (meaning 3 capitals) and control of all of their cities. By the end of the game, I had 12 20+ population cities and 2 30+ population cities. Yeah, it's about like that.

    The Mongols are very open to any strategy if played properly during the early game. They are meant to quickly and efficiently take out at least one civ and then continue on to whichever victory they so choose.

    Oh, did I mention spies? Yeah, use them a lot. You can beat enemy civs without the use of a catapult very early on by using these guys. Disrupt an archers defense and have your Keshiks curb stomp them with great prejudice. The enemy won't build spies until a good way into the game, so don't be afraid to spam them. I usually have one city devoted to building them and save up about 6-7 for when I'm going to take out my second enemies capital.

    For everyone wanting a general strategy to use before I do my huge write up that is totally involved with pictures and maybe some video. Note: I'll have a more in depth strategy for my big guide as well as some very drastic variations on it.

    1. Put your main city on pure production. You should have 4 hammers a turn. This means you'll have a warrior in 3 turns.

    2. Once your warrior is out, go pure food. Send your warrior looking for any barbarian cities.

    3. Once your city grows in population, devote that new pop onto research. Begin researching your way to Horseback Riding (should be one tech in).

    4. By the time you have Horseback Riding, you should have 1-2 cities. Your main city should cease beaker production and start hammer production. 2 hammer tiles, 2 food tiles, the rest in research. Your other city should grow until it has 2 tiles and then devote it entirely to hammers. The majority of Barbarian cities will have 2 hammer tiles.

    5. By the time you have a Keshik out, you should have another city. Use the keshik to explore whatever direction your other warrior is not. Continue building Keshiks.

    6. Once you have an armies worth of Keshiks, assemble everything near the border of your nearest enemies capital. Assemble the army and send your warrior in first. Always use a single spare unit to scout the enemy cities.

    7. By this time, if your Keshiks can not take his defenses, wait for him to send stuff out from his city. Attack anything that comes out EXCEPT settlers. Let the settlers sit and then take the city.

    8. During all of this, bee-line for writing and mathematics. Writing allows you to build spies, and catapults are just great.

    9. If, by some chance, you have been unable to take your enemies capital by this point, send spies in. Spies are the great equalizer. Your enemy will not have built any, and you can disrupt his defenses and begin to curb stomp them with great prejudice. Spies are only 5 more than your Keshiks and move one less (2 spaces). They are a great unit to send in.

    10. By this time, you SHOULD have your first capital. This is all you really need. Build one archer army in all of your cities and begin production on settlers. Research Republic at this point if you feel like you need to get your capitals up faster. Use your capitals to mass-produce the more expensive units, like catapults, and use your smaller cities (save 1 or 2 for this) to produce archers. Send Keshiks in to scout your next target out. This is about where the next strategy guide will take you down the various roads of victory and how to achieve them with the Mongols.

    I hope you enjoyed reading this and forgive me for any spelling mistakes or grammar errors. I'm using Google Chrome and while it does spell check, I haven't figured out how to correct the spelling. My next guide should come out in two weeks or so. I may or may not have it in PDF form (would be a first for me) but it will definitely contain pictures and MAYBE a movie. Maybe. We'll see.

    Maybe the PS3 2.50 firmware will come out before then and I'll be able to actually take pictures of my stuffs in game!
     
  2. PeteAtoms

    PeteAtoms FormulaRandom

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    Great guide!

    :bowdown: :thumbsup: :clap:

    I look forward to more guides like this one.
     
  3. GamerDad

    GamerDad Chieftain

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    This is a great guide, indeed. I'll have to give some of your strategy a try and see how it plays out. Unfortunately for me, (on Deity) I seem to always end up being the early target of a couple of civs and none of the strategies I've read take into account what to do when you have neighbors banging on your door. It disrupts the entire plan when you have to go on the defensive or have your productive sea tiles blockaded by a more powerful Navy right off the bat.
     
  4. Reapyr

    Reapyr Chieftain

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    Very nice guide indeed...much more readable then some of the ones I have seen.

    Some tidbits I have tried todo the couple times I have been mongrols...

    If there is no threat coming that you know of, put your new barbarian villages worker on research, if possible threat, then maybe make a warrior then go to research.

    After horseback writing, focus on research and a few hammers(to get some horses). If lucky you might have 5-6 barbarian villages. One of the key things I try todo as mongrols is get the Irrigation tech first...the bonus just made all my villages +1 pop.
     
  5. Raw Power

    Raw Power Chieftain

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    The easy solution is to take the close AI out early. The closer he is, the easier it is to take him out as your travel distance is closer. In such cases a preemptive strike is the easiest solution.

    Example:
    Go all out science, get HBR
    Switch to all production, make 3 horseman (rush one from barb gold).
    Kill the first AI. If you have two AI close you might even be able to get the second AI capitol as well.
    After this you can go the peaceful route, or continue your warfare, but you will probably need either catapults or knights for the next phase.
     
  6. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    Nice use of "preemptive strike" :lol:
     
  7. Gus_Smedstad

    Gus_Smedstad Warlord

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    I was pulling my hair out trying to play the Mongols on Emperor until I tried this. It works. The key thing is that while other civs are size 3-4 and producing about 4 hammers, you're got 3-4 barbarian villages plus your capitol cranking out 12-16. As I learned through bitter experience, if you try and improve those villages or defend them, your advantage evaporates. If you don't rush, the barbarian villages are just badly placed, impossible to defend liabilities, and they destroy the special resource they're built on to boot. But if you use that production to build a large early army and take secondary cities, there's not much the AI can do about it.

    Taking a capitol is a real pain with ATK 2 units like Keshiks. Particularly if it's the Aztecs, where attrition doesn't work. I ended up waiting for a couple of Catapult armies before I managed my first, but it was easy to take 3 colonies defended with just an archer and a warrior or legion with the Keshik armies. Which gave me a nice local boost to production.

    I'd also say that once you research Mathematics, you really need to switch your cities to gold production long enough to build a road network. You need your catapults to reach the front line in just 1-2 turns.

    - Gus
     
  8. Sciguy001

    Sciguy001 CiV Great Scientist (duh)

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    Great guide:goodjob:. The mongols are probably one of the best civilizations int the game with there barbarian city power. Then again, any civilization can be very powerful if you use it correctly:)
     
  9. Boomsie

    Boomsie Chieftain

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    Mongols= WIN

    Yea, they're one of my faves.
     
  10. jauggy

    jauggy Warlord

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    Are you able to use this strategy on Deity consistently? I am able to easily win using mongols on Emperor and below, but I am finding it tough on Deity.

    I know this is an old thread so I guess there won't be a "full" guide as mentioned in the first post, but I would have wanted to see it.
     
  11. Gus_Smedstad

    Gus_Smedstad Warlord

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    I've only found that this fails on Deity if you get a string of bad luck. For example, starting on a penninsula blocked off by a high-culture civilization, with at most one captured barbarian village in between. Or getting really bad locations (1 food / 1 hammer tiles all around) for the first several captured villages.

    On Deity, I find I can't capture hostile capitols, even with spies to help out, until I get catapults. But it's not difficult to kill / capture everything else with a couple of horsemen armies. Your nearest neighbors can't expand, and you get a new city every time they send out a settler.

    You do have to be careful about culture, though. A civ with high starting culture (i.e. France) will flip captured cities right back.

    - Gus
     
  12. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

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    There won't be any barb gold - though you could put newly captured cities on pure gold and if they have some trade it will help. Not that much, though. Perhaps you can get some village gold - maybe 25-50 if you are lucky.

    While I think the Mongols can be an interesting civ to play and play successfully, I don't agree that they are among the most "awesome" of choices. On Deity, I do enjoy getting Keshik armies up and moving, and even if I cannot take enemy capitals I find that a well placed army or two on a nearby hill will effectively contain that civ until I can kill them off at my leisure.

    However, I find that there are too many different situations that put the Mongols at risk.

    1. Civs with more powerful starting defensive units like the Greeks and English can cause issues. Not to mention the Aztecs with insta-heal.
    2. High-culture civs like the French and Egyptians can cause problems with blocking and/or city flipping.
    3. Too many barb-made cities will often cause issues with defending them. Losing one or more means a rival getting more cities and possibly some of your technology for free.
    4. Too few barb cities could lead to stagnation and poorly placed, non-productive cities to work with.
    5. Without Barb income (or caravan income from barb cities giving you a caravan), rushing things becomes a more difficult proposition.

    In all, I think that there are several civs better geared for rushing and early domination. Granted, they won't have a batch of 4-6 cities quickly thanks to barb-mania, but with 2-3 cities, a larger cache of income, and cities better geared to produce and grow, I find things work better.

    That said, I also think that there are large amount of civs that do better than the Mongols overall. They can be fun to play when looking to produce a horde and terrorize neighbors quickly, but I think the window to do this successfully is more narrow than other civs'.
     
  13. Gus_Smedstad

    Gus_Smedstad Warlord

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    The secret to defending barb-village cities as the Mongols is not to defend them. Rather, you have to contain the other civilizations so thoroughly that they never get close.

    Now and then it may make sense to build a single archer, but if you put much more than that into defense, you lose the vital momentum you need to stay ahead of the other civs. Where other civs usually wait until the Modern age to conquer the world, if the issue isn't mostly decided by the time the other civs get Pikemen, you're screwed.

    - Gus
     
  14. MorteEterna

    MorteEterna Prince

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    Obviously playing NOT ON MP, on chieftain and against bad civilizations. Mongols are one of the worst civilization if used correctly. This still means you didn't play enough and maybe you think I'm the noob here. I know how to use them and they are one of the worst simply :rolleyes:
     
  15. jauggy

    jauggy Warlord

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    I've only managed to find one other guide on the mongols (for SP). You can find it on gamespot forums made by masterpoker. It involves beelining to feudalism and using knights instead of catapults. I haven't been able to use that strat successfully on deity either. However, the strat works perfect on Emperor.

    I agree that Mongols are a hard to use civ. I use them on SP because of the challenge, not because I think they are good. I really want to master this civ because of their difficulty.
     
  16. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

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    The Mongolians are probably the hardest civ to use, and I'd say the Romans are the easiest.

    The problem with many Mongolian strategies for online, is that most of the players are too aggressive and could easily take your Barbarian cities before you even have the time to get HBR and Keshiks.
     
  17. MorteEterna

    MorteEterna Prince

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    The romans are the hardest ones and the best one civ to use. The mongols are the hardest one after the romans but they are one of the worst civ, weak against rushers, techers, expanders, and a lot of civilizations. Before you get horseback and start producing keshik armies, you need irrigation for a good production and much more.
     
  18. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

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    I don't understand how Rome is "oh so hard" to use. Look at their traits, then please try to convince me again. They start with Republic, get Half-Cost Wonders and their settlers late in the game get +1 population.

    I really don't see that as hard. It means that you can rush to Democracy-University tech path a lot easier (Because you start with CoL). Looking at their traits, it doesn't seem that hard to use them.
     
  19. MorteEterna

    MorteEterna Prince

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    In my life of civ rev gamer I have seen only another good roman player, Mr Game Theory. Nobody else. They are the hardest one because you can't stop any kind of rush without experience.. Really, I don't know how you can judge if after 30 turns in our first game you had only 1 city while I had like 15.. And you had no units also..
     
  20. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

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    Was that the game where I started off on an island, or the game where I took the bulk of your cities, but the captured AI capitals kept you alive?
     

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