A rather unusual self-defence case...

Onionsoilder

Reaver
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
3,173
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/15/samurai.sword.killing/

(CNN) -- A Johns Hopkins University student killed an apparent burglar with a samurai sword after discovering the man in his garage, police said Tuesday.
Baltimore, Maryland, police received a phone call shortly before 1:30 a.m. Tuesday about a suspicious person, and an off-duty officer arrived at the scene with campus security, city police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said.
When authorities arrived, they heard calls for help and for police, he said. They discovered a suspected burglar with a severed left hand and severe lacerations to his upper body, Guglielmi said.
The suspect died at the scene, he said.
The man had entered a home where several Johns Hopkins students lived, Guglielmi said. Four students, one armed with a samurai sword, had confronted the suspect in the garage.
The man "lunged" at the students, and the student with the sword defended himself, severing the man's left hand and cutting his upper body, Guglielmi said.
Police did not release the name of the suspect, who Guglielmi said had a long criminal history, or that of the student.
Police questioned the three witnesses, Guglielmi said, and released them. It was not immediately clear whether all four students lived at the house, he said.
Authorities are determining whether the student will face criminal charges, Guglielmi said.
Burglars had taken two laptops and a Sony PlayStation from the students' home Monday, Guglielmi said.
The burglary suspect had been released from prison Saturday, Guglielmi said.

Well, I think the guy with the sword was justified. It's hard to sever someone's hand if they're running from you, easy if they're charging towards you, so I would say their story checks out. What do you guys think?
 
I don't think the student should face criminal charges.
 
OF course they should not prosecute the man. And the news article is jumping to conclusions by calling him a burglar. He may well have been there to murder the people in the house, we'll never know. It is for that very reason that anyone who breaks into a home should basically be forfeiting their lives to the occupants. Never, ever, EVER prosecute anyone who kills an intruder because the resident probably just saved their OWN life.
 
And of course his very act of breaking into the home should be viewed as an attack.
 
OF course they should not prosecute the man. And the news article is jumping to conclusions by calling him a burglar. He may well have been there to murder the people in the house, we'll never know. It is for that very reason that anyone who breaks into a home should basically be forfeiting their lives to the occupants. Never, ever, EVER prosecute anyone who kills an intruder because the resident probably just saved their OWN life.

Well, I wouldn't say EVER.

You can't just kill anyone who breaks into your house - there's tons of exceptions where you'd be in the wrong if you did so.
 
Well yes, of course. You have an obligation to ensure it's not just your neighbor whose drunk and confused about which house he's at or something like that.
 
That's hardcore man! Kendo classes ftw!

I don't suppose any other burglers are going to want to try their hands (hehe) at taking his house again. As for prosecution. I think it's pretty clearly self-defense, so, none of them should be prosecuted.
 
OF course they should not prosecute the man. And the news article is jumping to conclusions by calling him a burglar. He may well have been there to murder the people in the house, we'll never know. It is for that very reason that anyone who breaks into a home should basically be forfeiting their lives to the occupants. Never, ever, EVER prosecute anyone who kills an intruder because the resident probably just saved their OWN life.

No, the vast majority of burglars don't murder the resident so they probbaly didnt. and newspapers do tend to label people by the crime they actually commited, not one they hypothetically could have, hence why most shoplifters dont get described as genocidal maniacs'.
 
It's clear that it's self defense, but it could still have been excessive. Doesn't sound like it though.

My understanding is that if you have Japanese martial arts training with a sword, your instinct would be to deliver a specific kind of blow, which apparently matches up very well with the wounds the burglar received.

Also, the student in question had been the victim of two previous burglaries, so it is understandable that he would be extremely upset at yet another break-in.
 
Well yes, of course. You have an obligation to ensure it's not just your neighbor whose drunk and confused about which house he's at or something like that.

Yes, that's one of the things you need to keep in mind before you go around shooting people.
 
And of course his very act of breaking into the home should be viewed as an attack.
Point of order: he didn't break into the home.
After the officers left, the housemates decided to check the area again, with Pontolillo grabbing the sword, Guglielmi said. As Pontolillo checked an outside yard area after 1 a.m., he noticed Rice crouched in a corner, Guglielmi said. He told the man not to move, and yelled for his roommates to call police, according to Guglielmi.

Pontolillo was not inside the garage but backed up against the exterior of a garage door when Rice is alleged to have aggressively moved toward him with his arms raised. Guglielmi said Pontolillo made one downward strike towards Rice, hitting him in the neck and the hand. Rice's hand was nearly severed, and he bled to death at the scene.
As Maryland has a 'Duty to Retreat' law, it's not at all clear that this man's actions were legally justified. They may have been, but there's certainly room for doubt.
 
As far as I am concerned "in" means inside the boundaries of your property.
 
As far as I am concerned "in" means inside the boundaries of your property.
Actually, on review, that wouldn't even fly in Texas. You don't simply get carte blanch to execute people who come onto your property. They have to be demonstrably threatening you or your property to the point where you reasonably believe you have no alternative but to employ lethal force.
 
You know what's overrated?

Facts.

Facts and laws.

Who CARES that self-defence laws are state-specific and who even CARES our facts come from CNN.

Let's just continue arguing : )
 
You know what's overrated?

Facts.

Facts and laws.

Who CARES that self-defence laws are state-specific and who even CARES our facts come from CNN.

Let's just continue arguing : )

Why should we care what the law is? Are we a court? Have we been hired to serve as lawyers by either the student or the family of the burglar?

A far more interesting discussion is whether morality, principles of justice, or utilitarian expediency justify the man's actions.
 
Back
Top Bottom