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A remarkably Specific and Atypical Situation

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Ramanag, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. Ramanag

    Ramanag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Hello Forum,

    I have an unusual and specific set of circumstances how I play most of my civ games, and I've never seen something asked or answered under these conditions, but I'm hoping to get some insights anyway.

    The Settings:
    Unrestricted Leaders
    No Tech Trading
    No Time, Cultural, Domination Victories
    No Tribal Villages*
    Choose Religions*


    I think everything else is pretty standard. *Not terribly important to the circumstances

    The Game:
    Large Map
    Marathon Speed
    Tectonics (Earthlike 70% Water)
    9 AIs
    3 Human Players (All Prince Difficulty)


    The three of us are friends, and these are the rules that we play by. We play often and have all thrown in our two cents to move the rules slightly. As such, and since we play a fair amount (occasionally with other friends included, occasionally only two of us, depending upon who's available when) we almost always take out AIs before attacking each other. Victories other than conquest are rare, but typically, by the time a likely winner is discovered, the other two players rally together (typically permallying themselves) and, maybe 1/3 of the time, beat the top dog. Another important thing is that, because we play so often, we can typically predict each others actions, at least as easily as I could predict how any specific AI is going to attack. (e.g. Mansa Musa is probably going to discover liberalism first, unless you stop him, Catherine will, inevitably, stab you in the back, etc.)

    So, here are the players as it stands:

    *Willem von Orange of Arabia: 3404 (1st in tech, 3rd in straight power)
    *Hammurabi of England (Me): 2924 (4th in tech, 2nd in straight power)
    *Julius Caesar of Japan: 2870 (Bad for tech, 4th in straight power)
    Cyrus of the Byzantines: 2737 (Bad for Tech, 1st in straight power)
    Mansa Musa of the Celts (Vassal of Willem) (2nd-3rd in tech)
    Justinian of Germany (Colony of Willem) (2nd-3rd in tech)
    Genghis Khan of Ethiopia (Colony of Hammurabi)
    Barbarian of the Americans (I hate getting Barbarian for my colonies :mad: (Colony of Hammurabi)
    Joao of China (Colony of Hammurabi)
    Hannibal of Egypt (Colony of Hammurabi)

    Human players are noted with asterisks.

    I included the vassals still alive in the game, but not their scores. None of them will be winning, and, aside from Justinian and Mansa, they really have nothing to contribute to the endgame.

    Brief History of the Game:

    I began on a moderately sized continent with an AI, Boudica. She was wiped out early due to a random event barbarian horde, so being isolated, I bulbed for astronomy, using the great library for most on my GPP. I missed the circumnavigation bonus by a few turns (to an AI who was at war, and losing very badly, no less :mad:) but had astronomy quickly enough to save my economy with trade routes (no religions :() and, knowing I was technologically defunct I quickly started sending out galleons with settlers to make myself some colonies, both for trade routes and to make myself look more intimidating, as I had a very paltry power level upon reaching astronomy.

    The other human players both began on the mega continent, with 8 of the game's 12 civs on it. By the time I had met them, two had already been destroyed (I am the only one who doesn't still favor warrior rushes) and there were two evident superpowers, Willem and Mansa Musa.

    Cyrus began on another two person continent. I didn't met him until much later, and don't really know much about him, but the guy likes me, and were it not for my colonies, we probably would've permaligned.

    Now for the more recent history:

    Willem's player is a heavy warmonger, but his attacks are pretty ham-fisted. He's good against an AI, but a smart human can hold him off in most wars, provided you're not entirely outclassed. As such, he conquered most of his continent, save Mansa Musa (who was too powerful for him at the time) and Japan fairly shortly after I had met them. Mansa Musa still out-teched him pretty strongly, though, and he had trouble, initially, taking Mansa off the continent. He and Japan fought a lot of wars with the other civs, the arabians taking the lion's share and leaving some other stuff to Japan. Japan did get all of Mansa Musa's territory, however, as by then, Arabia was powerful enough to think he could get away with doing that. I'm hoping he was wrong. With Mansa capitulating to Willem, I made the comment that only Cyrus and Charlemagne were left until we started, inevitably, fighting each other. Within 10 turns, Willem had declared war on, and crushed Charlemagne, who shared Cyrus' continent, though he had only 6 cities, himself, and three were on smaller landmasses near the continent. From the ashes of Charlemagne came Justinian, holding few cities, little power, but a whole lotta tech. I immediately tank my research and putt all of my commerce into intel against justinian, as willem had been outespionaging me since we met ( I couldn't hope to keep up with him). I grabbed a few tech from him, when Cyrus then declared war on Willem, surprising everyone. Within a few turns, he took back all of justinian's continental claims and is pushing pretty hard on the remaining three cities, but willem is airlifting forces in to keep cyrus at bay.

    Japan and I know that we need to work together to stop Willem, but neither of us is in a great position to do so. Mine is certainly better, and so I'm doing more. I am closer to Cyrus than the others are, and have my naval fleet (6 carriers and 10 destroyers, along with some transports with impotent troops inside) near byzantine territory, but not inside, save for a bare carrier in a port. I have been stealing techs as quickly as possible from Justinian, and should be able to steal industrialism in a turn or two. My bare carrier is currently acting as a lend-lease conduit to cyrus, giving him fighters to stop willem's bombers, as cyrus doesn't have flight yet. I am not at war with willem (though I imagine I will be shortly, as I'm fairly certain he knows I've been supplying willem with fighters) If we go to war right now, I imagine I will win the initial battles, as my forces are mobilized and ready to attack Willem's navy, which is entirely set in one of Justinian's island cities. Still, my desire is to stay out of the war, and, hopefully, tone down the lend-lease program once I steal industrialism and radio and research fission and rocketry. After that, my plan is to tank my research and espionage into cash, in order to hurry many many tactical nukes once (presumably) Willem builds the manhattan project. If I get those techs before the manhattan project is built, and I am worried that I will be attacked soon (not likely, as willem forces currently are actually fairly weak. His navy is exclusively transports, all on one city tile with three AI infantry guarding it, as well as some tanks every so often, as he airlifts them there, then transports them to cyrus' mainland. If, however, the manhattan project isn't up, and I am worried about being attacked, I have a great engineer and plan to rush it if necessary:

    My questions are:
    1) Can a great engineer rush the manhattan project
    2) Are there any things you think I shouldn't have done as I did
    3) Is there a better way to proceed than my current plan.

    Also, I forgot to mention this earlier, but it's probably important enough to warrant it: I have mining inc and sid's sushi in my WS city, which, thanks to me and my colonies(and income enhancing quests from mining inc), makes about 500 gold/turn without taking any commerce into account.

    Thanks for staying with me this long, any and all help is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. banson

    banson Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    120
    most will usualy give you better advice if you can link or post saved game files so they can scan your game and see whats going on.
     
  3. Shafi

    Shafi King

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Sri Lanka
    You cant use a GE for Manhattan Project.
     
  4. Agramon

    Agramon Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2006
    Messages:
    261
    If you move on to a higher difficulty the AI will be less pathetic. And sometimes more helpful ,-) Settling a lot of islands is a bit odd, if you plan for endgame war. They need a lot of investment, low return, easy prey. You should have a vassal doing that ,-)
     
  5. Ramanag

    Ramanag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Ah, got an auto save from a few turns back. I didn't think ahead to save the game before we stopped playing, as I'm not the host. As for the higher difficulty, we're just broaching into Prince right now, this is, I think, our second Prince game. Maybe in a month or so, I'll hop to Monarch. Also, I don't know if I made this clear or not, but I settled those islands and immediately (once I had two cities on any one island) gave them their independence. They're pretty inconsequential to me, but if they can help in a war, hey super. Also, one of them dropped a city on the mega continent, behind Japan, so Willem can't see it very well, and certainly isn't looking. If I can start a land war, that's my airlifting foothold.
     

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  6. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,760
    Location:
    Toronto
    Often times it's better to not just automatically grant independance to colonies. Especially if they're only a few cities, they will generally more than pay for themselves.
     
  7. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    7,205
    I agree with the above.

    ---

    Unfortunately I cant open the map as my computer is half dead atm meanin BTS is not an option until i get a new one.

    But my limited view as to the game its pretty obvious from what your saying that Willem needs to be pacified. Get japan as well as yourself to mobilise a large army, while willem is pre-occupied with cyrus (try to prevent his fall for as long as possible). Then launch a combined attack into his heartland.

    Keeping the proxy war with cyrus going on as long as possible, to chew up willems forces and keep him occupied is good. Keep the theft of byzantine technology as well, any chance at reaching tech parity is good.

    Nukes if you have them should be used only when the occasion requires them, such as a uber-stack which would absoultely cramp your pacification of the Dutch arabian.(as to not provoke a counter nuking) Or if he nukes you or Japan.

    You should also co-orfinate reasearch with your japanese ally (if possible) so that you have a better chance combined of reaching tech parity with the leading tech-monger.

    ---

    My main concern with your curent strategy is that it leaves plenty of time for Willem to get a major military force on line to become a massive threat to the remaining free people of your alternative earth. Agressively thwarting his plans seems like the better option here.
     
  8. KeloGBites

    KeloGBites Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    274
    As a piece of advice, I don't see the point of making Colonies up to Immortal-Deity. On Monarch-Emperor you can use that land much better even though the costs are somewhat troubling, below that the costs are near insignificant as such you might as well keep the land. On Immortal-Deity though the AI is strong enough to be able to be a major force (especially on Deity) and the costs are troublesome.
     
  9. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    7,205
    Four colonies is a lot.
     
  10. peapd

    peapd Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    58
    Edit: oops, loaded wrong player, disregard previous comments.


    Having had a quick look at your empire, I'd say:

    Make lots of military, you don't need all of the buildings you have queued up presently. Everyone in this game is a builder type, if you set every city you have to *inf/*art, you win in 40 turns.

    Use the rush buy feature. You've got 5000 gold in the bank, spend it on those factories and get to pumping out dudes.
     
  11. Ramanag

    Ramanag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Well, unfortunately, I failed miserably, as my ally Japan quickly permaligned himself with Arabia the instant I declared. After about 20 turns of us destroying each others vassals, and a bad count for me, causing my forces to arrive one turn late in Kyoto, and thus, having it much too well defended, I capitulated out of the boredom of watching their attacks impotently bash against my defenses, but knowing that I had to kill my tech just to stay alive.

    A new game has begun, and, because I selected Monarch, they followed. They still warrior rush and I'm the only one who's played on Monarch before. This one's mine.
     
  12. Ramanag

    Ramanag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    End of Day 1 playing this game. Still fairly early. 760 BC as of tonight. I kinda fear I may have built/captured too many cities too quickly. I'm pushing for CoL through currency to keep myself solvent and chopped the pyramids... And just now realized that I'm still running despotism anyway. I always forget to change civics when I get the pyramids... Anyway, if anyone wants to drop some tips, I'd greatly appreciate it, though there isn't as much to say this time around.

    I'm Shaka of the Mayans, the other two human players, again sharing a continent, are Du Gaulle and Darius of the Celts and Americans, respectively.
     

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