So having done a lot of DV recently, there's a few things I'm seeing that I would like to bring up for discussion.
The 20 Turn Mistake
DV requires 2 key votes before hegemony, United Nations and World Ideology.
A long while ago VP made a change where the same proposal could not be brought up again and again, there had to be one vote in between. Overall, this is a very good change, keeps the votes dynamic. It did however, have an effect on DV.
If you fail to secure the United Nations vote, at minimum your DV is pushed back 20 turns. That is a LOT, the entire game changes in 20 turns around that point in the game. World Ideology is similar, though you can pick another ideology for the vote, and if your doing well on your votes and don't need World Ideology, its a common play. So you lose 10 turns when you fail the World Ideology, painful, but not a major setback like United Nations.
I want to consider an exception to the rule for United Nations. Allow the proposal to be brought up repeatedly for each vote. That way you are not majorly set backed if you don't have the votes. Or have the Nations automatically initiate after a certain tech or era.
DV is actually VV
In my experience, getting a DV all by your lonesome is quite challenging now a days. The AI has become quite the shark on CS, they will use Open Doors and Spheres to gobble up your CS allies....or just take them out one by one if diplomacy is not an option.
However, vassals completely change the picture. Even one vassal generates a lot of votes at base, a few for being a member, often a few more if you connect with the World Ideology or Religion, etc.
Even just one vassal makes DV significantly easier, but having 2 practically makes it automatic (especially with order because you get even more votes!). With 2 vassals, I don't even need any CS most of the time...which to me is going against the spirit of DV.
That said, I like that DV is a more active condition than SV or CV, so I do like that vassals give you some benefit. I also don't want to see vassals voting against you for hegemony, that's just silly. So my thought is this.
During Hegemony, vassals only get their base votes (aka the base 2 or 3 votes they receive for being a member). Its still a useful bump, almost the same as the Freedom policy or Wonder... but no longer a major percentage of your overall votes.
So that's my pitch, thoughts?
The 20 Turn Mistake
DV requires 2 key votes before hegemony, United Nations and World Ideology.
A long while ago VP made a change where the same proposal could not be brought up again and again, there had to be one vote in between. Overall, this is a very good change, keeps the votes dynamic. It did however, have an effect on DV.
If you fail to secure the United Nations vote, at minimum your DV is pushed back 20 turns. That is a LOT, the entire game changes in 20 turns around that point in the game. World Ideology is similar, though you can pick another ideology for the vote, and if your doing well on your votes and don't need World Ideology, its a common play. So you lose 10 turns when you fail the World Ideology, painful, but not a major setback like United Nations.
I want to consider an exception to the rule for United Nations. Allow the proposal to be brought up repeatedly for each vote. That way you are not majorly set backed if you don't have the votes. Or have the Nations automatically initiate after a certain tech or era.
DV is actually VV
In my experience, getting a DV all by your lonesome is quite challenging now a days. The AI has become quite the shark on CS, they will use Open Doors and Spheres to gobble up your CS allies....or just take them out one by one if diplomacy is not an option.
However, vassals completely change the picture. Even one vassal generates a lot of votes at base, a few for being a member, often a few more if you connect with the World Ideology or Religion, etc.
Even just one vassal makes DV significantly easier, but having 2 practically makes it automatic (especially with order because you get even more votes!). With 2 vassals, I don't even need any CS most of the time...which to me is going against the spirit of DV.
That said, I like that DV is a more active condition than SV or CV, so I do like that vassals give you some benefit. I also don't want to see vassals voting against you for hegemony, that's just silly. So my thought is this.
During Hegemony, vassals only get their base votes (aka the base 2 or 3 votes they receive for being a member). Its still a useful bump, almost the same as the Freedom policy or Wonder... but no longer a major percentage of your overall votes.
So that's my pitch, thoughts?
