1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

A short question about Legalism?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Lordleoz, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    I currently have 3 cities and have adopted Legalism. I am planning to attack Buffalo and burn it to ground but I'm wondering if doing this will waste Legalism's free cultural building.

    So does Legalism's bonus apply to :c5occupied: annexed or :c5puppet: puppeted cities?
     
  2. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    11,755
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rural Vermont
    Legalism does not apply to puppeted cities.
     
  3. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    Good. Thanks :)
     
  4. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    Then there will be a free building if I annex it?
     
  5. spafey

    spafey Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    28
    I don't think so. You must annex then pick up legalism.
     
  6. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,765
    Hmm, have this been tested? I'm not sure that is true.
     
  7. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Virtual reality
    That's not true. Free buildings are added in cities you have at the moment of adopting Legalism/Finisher. If the puppet was conquered after choosing Legalism, then free building won't be placed there but in the next native city you'll found. However the aqueduct from the finisher will pop in it, so beware.
     
  8. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    11,755
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rural Vermont
    This cried out for a test. Fired up a late-game autosave from culture game I recently finished. I had only founded 3 cities, no puppets, full Tradition. Located a 2 pop target (Mayan city, recently founded) to conquer. Spy confirmed the city only had walls, a library and a university. When conquered, the "View City" screen confirmed that the walls and library were destroyed, leaving only a university.

    When puppeted (city still in revolt): Nothing but a university.

    Puppeted (no longer in revolt): Nothing but a university

    Annexed (no courthouse): Nothing but a university

    Annexed (after courthouse): Nothing but a university and a courthouse.

    Still true 5 turns later (just in case there might be a delayed effect of some sort).

    Then I bought a settler and planted a new city: Free aqueduct and free monument

    Conclusion: Legalism and the Tradition finisher appear to apply only to the first 4 cities you found. Puppeted and annexed cities do not get those free buildings.
     
  9. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    Thanks! --> all problems settled. :)
     
  10. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,765
    Thanx for taking the time to check this. I've seen contradictory information float around on this subject.
     
  11. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    11,755
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rural Vermont
    It occurs to me there is one last scenario to verify: confirm that cities puppeted and/or annexed before you take Legalism and the Tradition Finisher behave the same way. I doubt it makes a difference, but its worth checking.

    So, the idea would be start the game, take the Tradition opener, then shift to Liberty. Before you found your fourth city, conquer a neighbor's city (making sure it has no aqueduct in it, and preferable no monument--otherwise you have to wait for Drama & Poetry to answer the question and who has the patience for that). Then take Legalism as your next policy. Prediction: No monument in your puppeted city and no monument after you annex that city.

    Could then do the same thing for the Tradition finisher. Load an autosave from after you puppeted the city but before you annexed. Play through the rest of the Tradition tree without founding a 4th city. When you take the Tradition finisher, verify that no aqueduct appears in the puppeted city and no aqueduct after you annex.

    Obviously all that would take longer that the quick test I did, but would put the last nail in the coffin.
     
  12. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Virtual reality
    It does. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    13,579
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Actually, the ideal way to do this would be to wait until after the Renaissance, when you can put a spy in a city to confirm there was no monument previously. I don't know who would have the patience for that, though. I suppose you could start in a later era. Or, even better, do a test in multiplayer so you can just ask the other person to avoid building monuments.
     
  14. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    -----
     
  15. Hyperion529

    Hyperion529 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    303
    i guess The Pilgrim checked the cities buildings before and after adopting legalism/finish the tree. otherwise, the testing would be rather pointless.

    but your idea leads me to another, partly related question: do free buildings actually stay free if the ownership of the city changes?
     
  16. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Virtual reality
    I adopted Legalism on the same turn I captured Istanbul.

    The truth is this subject was tested extensively a few month ago. Can't find the thread, somewhere in S&T. Just double checked with recent patch. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    ^This is pretty strange.... :dunno:

    Back to the first post: I had three city, each with a free cultural building from Legalism. Later I captured Buffalo, no monument there. Annexed it, still no monument. And I founded the my fourth city: free monument. So I reached the same conclusion as Browd.
     
  18. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Virtual reality
    Doubt it. Irrelevant for Legalism, because cultural buildings get destroyed upon capture, but the aqueducts probably become regular ones, just like UB's. Too bad they don't get destroyed though. Who wants an aqueduct in captured city anyways? :)
     
  19. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Virtual reality
    I don't necessarily agree with the logic behind this mechanics, but it is what it is. Legalism/finisher apply to captured cities only if at the moment of adopting the policy they are already under your control. It doesn't work retroactively. If you adopted Legalism prior to capturing Buffalo (which you did), free monument will pop up in next native city that will be founded. And that's exactly what happened.
     
  20. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    I was confused. I thought our conclusions contradicted each other but now I understand so here's the mechanic: If you first adopt Legalism, then capture a city, it will not get free building. But if you first capture, then adopt Legalism, the free cultural building will be present in the captured city.
     

Share This Page