A story about "The British Empire"...

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by Dark Sheer
To say whether there is/are god one must first define what you mean by god.

In all religous text god is omnipotent, can do what we can't do. can do the unimaginable, blah blah blah. However, one must realise what can't be done now doesn't mean it can never be done. If a pre-historic human sees us today, won't he regards us as god?

If we take a closer look at most of the ancient text, tales are told in both east and west about various gods and deities which while can perform what human can't perform, can also be killed just like a human. Interesting thought I would say. In fact, a lot of ancient text if interpreted with today's knowledge, most of the battle between the gods sounds alot like some nuclear warfare or even futuristic warfare.

Therefore, before one can argue whether there exist something/someone call god, there is always the first question, what is god?

Yup, I agree...

 

[SKILORD]

Originally posted by Grey Fox
and Science has proven stuff that Religion only could guess, because it's not based on facts. No one can say that there ever was a God. They have no proof.

nor can you really prove evolution.. making it just as much a religion as christianity. If Evolution could be proven there would be no christians left, we would all be at least theistic evolutionists and a great deal of peaple are neither theistic nor otherwise evolutionists. Evolution is not based on facts really either... only the hypothesis of a man who stayed on his boat for tooo long.

 

[Grey Fox]

Maybe we can't really prove evolution to 100%, but the facts speak for itself.

The DNA of a chimpanse is 99,?% the same as ours. What do you think that means?

 

[SKILORD]

so what really? the DNA of an ameba(maybe i misspelled it) is 90 some % like our own too. a great deal of that information is just what is needed to create a living creature of any type. also you cannot prove that people haven't been around as long as everything else as that would require carbon dating to be accurate in the slightest bit and time and time again scientists have brought it's accurracy into question... remember Mt. St. helens? the Igneous rock there is millions of years old according to carbon dating. maybe you can say that it's Ok because it just gave the age of the matter not the rock itself, but that statement would have to be applied universally if it was true in this situation and doing so would mean that all matter being created in the "Big Bang" (as matter cannot be either created or destroyed, however for the sake of this arguement we'll say that somehow the "Big Bang" or whatever creaed the gasses from which it came overrode this proven[\B] law) all carbon dating would end up with the same age... cit doesn't which reduces any date gotten by it to a mere guess. now for the Matter Creatin/destruction law you might ask how god made anything from nothing but the answer here is simple for any christian who beleives in an omnipotent (meaning all powerful) God.

 

[xrang]

Now I'll admit to saying I feel a bit wierd posting this in a Civ 3 website. I think that people should keep religion and politics out of Civ3. But I felt that I neened to do this. In your ("Grey Fox") quote you state something to the effect that if one believes in God then then that person doesn't believe in the creativity of the human race. What? By my way of thinking if you believe in God your only re-enforcing your creativity by trusting that God has created human intelligence. Now I belive in the Big Bang and evolution. Both of them can co-exist with a Christian's belief. What I find fascinating is that you don't even understand what it means to belive in God. Your quote is not only offensive (its spelled 'offense' btw) but incredibly stupid. And to say the Matrix is a philosophical film is like saying Keanu Reeves can act (Its the same as lying). I'm not denying humankind's creativity; We've created the only man made structure that can be seen from space (the Great Wall), we've also made countless wars (including nuclear). Your ideal is too self-centered and above all unorganized. And I took 'offence' (lol) not because I'm some 'religious people' but because I'm a tolerant guy. I can tolerate other beliefs. But I cannot tolerate a person who isn't tolerant. Now you'll probably come back with something like, "Then why is there suffering." There's suffering because God thinks once we get burned we'll know not to touch a hot stove (He believes in our intelligence). But we, time and time again, get burned. Well, I guess I've succumbed to your plan; I read your quote and I submitted a reply. Now I'm afraid that I actually have to play a succession game with you so I'll backout as soon as my turn's up. This whole Thread is stupid, it has a stroy about a guy that didn't even win, and a stupid quote with a stupid philosophy. Oh yeah, I forgot, this thread has that 'Matrix' comment about how philosophical it is. People like Grey Fox think they're bigshots who don't think be fore they act. (BTW is Stockholm Swedish for 'Stupidville' because when I was watching National Geographic I could have...well you know.)

 

[Grey Fox]

Wow has this turned into an Off-Topic Discussion or what...

And don't be so harsh xrang, we don't want a fight do we?

Everybody here has to be able to read between the lines and between the words, because everything doesn't always means exactly what it's suppose to mean...

"To believe in a God is to disbelieve in the creativity and intelligence of the human race."

There is more to that qoute than just the words in it. Of course you don't disbelieve in the intelligence of the humans because you believe in God, hell no.

What I meant when I come up with that was that "IF" you believe in God you believe that God created us and made us what we are. And I mean that WE brought our selves to the point were we are.

Why should I start discussing Sufferings and such? We humans are the ones causing the Suffering on this planet. I won't say: "Why is there a God if he allows all the Sufferings?", why would I.

And Matrix IS a philosphical movie. It's a theory of how the world and our excistance could really be. The theory in that movie could be as true as your own excistence. We even saw the movie in our Philosophy class...

I don't think I'm a Big Shot as you call it, and I definately don't think I'm right about everything I have said in this thread. And I really would like to be able to believe in Christianity or some other religion, that would help...

I can tolerate other beliefs, too. And Yes I don't really know what it means to believe in God, or any God for that fact. I guess you have to believe to know that.


And about my story, don't you think it's more interesting to read about something as odd as a Cultural Loss? How fun is it to read about all those Conquest Victories?


You can correct all my misspellings if you like, if you can understand what it means it's no big deal right?

Well I just hope we all can be freinds and respect and tolerate each others, Right?!

 

[SKILORD]

well for all my religious disagreements with you grey Fox i must admit that if you get to thinking about it the matrix is a pretty philisophical movie. xrang, are you a English teacher or something? i cannot imagine any1 else thinking of spelling corrections as stinging retorts.

i won't get started on suffering.... the post(s) would get too long.

 

[xrang]

Now I feel like I've done something wrong. I'm sorry. I'm really the one who blew it out of proportion. I just don't like it when I feel as if something is being shoved down my throat. And I'm sorry that you don't know what its like to believe in God. All I can say is, "If nature is king, then who created nature." Of course this is the question the you seek the answer to, no doubt. I take back what I said about the succession game. I'm gonna play it to the end. And the Matrix does have some philosophical undertones, I just misunderstood them. I don't even really know what God is, its just that I feel as if there's something that's the ruler of it all. I am very, sincerely sorry. Can you except my apology?

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by xrang
Now I feel like I've done something wrong. I'm sorry. I'm really the one who blew it out of proportion. I just don't like it when I feel as if something is being shoved down my throat. And I'm sorry that you don't know what its like to believe in God. All I can say is, "If nature is king, then who created nature." Of course this is the question the you seek the answer to, no doubt. I take back what I said about the succession game. I'm gonna play it to the end. And the Matrix does have some philosophical undertones, I just misunderstood them. I don't even really know what God is, its just that I feel as if there's something that's the ruler of it all. I am very, sincerely sorry. Can you except my apology?

Of course I can forgive you!

And I'm glad you feel that way, this is a strong Issue that has caused many nations into war before in history.

Different beliefs can make people angry and even hateful, so I don't blame you.

Keep on philosophing and Happy Civing!

 

[SKILORD]

calm down, don't get all depressed look at it this way... you stopped me from going overboard, i have a habit of doing so.


sorry 'bout the english teacher thing if it offended you x.

 

[xrang]

About your user name, Grey Fox. Do you have a playstation?

 

[Grey Fox]

Well, when I lived home with my Parents, I had one with my brother, and yes we had Metal Gear Solid. And Yes my name came from there...

But I started playing MG, ehen it came on the Nes, and did it become my favourite game or what!

And now I have bought a PS2, just waiting for MGS2 to come to Sweden. It is released here 8th mars!

While all americans and asians already can bye the game...

 

[xrang]

at least u get an extra DVD full of goodies

 

[Michspirit99]

Originally posted by Thrawn
Just thought I'd point something out. You say they have no proof that there ever was a god. They don't have proof that there was, and they don't have proof that there wasn't. imo, debates like these will never end, no-one can prove anything.

True.

 

[PreTzeL_22]

"debates like these will go on and on"

That's the annoying part. Just have to wait till we're dead I guess.

I was dead-anxious about Death

Reason why things like this go on and on is because no side is just going to sit down and let the other convince 'the people' (some sort of neutral audience). I just have to get up and tell you you're wrong (or just put forward my point of view perhaps). Thus, as proof that we are forever doomed to squander the rest of or lives arguing about what they mean (golly) :

How could it be possible for an environment as perfect as earth (just look at all the other planets...) just to be created by sheer accident... Earth is just to perfect if you ask me.

Right, now somebody else get up and tell me I'm wrong

 

[SKILORD]

1st of all I cannot BELEIVE that someone would start it up again... x-rang did a masterful job of switching the conversation.

Now for your point..... i agree completely. Twere the earth a galactic eyelash's length closer or further away from the sun live as we know it couldn't exist at all. another point, virtually all life on Earth is dependent upon each other, look at plants and animals, they make oxygen for us we make CO2 for them. insects + flowers? sharks + those little sucky things that stick to their chests( whatever their called)?parasites and hosts how did parasites that mostly feed off humans evolve and thrive before humans? you could say about us and the plants that plants came first = made the atmosphere full of Oxygen so we could evolve but as the little algea that (if evolution were right) evolved first are the top oxygen producing/carbon consuming plants on this earth( if i'm wrong it's my Biology teacher's fault) they would have suffocated LONG before anything large enough to make up for their OXY/CO2 process could have evolved. how did plants and bee's come together? did plkants get their pollon out some other way and then bees came along and little Mr. angiospore decided "Well you know what? lemme go and become dependent upon this little creature for the survival of my species" does this seem like survival of the fittest to you?

 

[SKILORD]

and then the crowd is silent in admiration for the great and mighty Skilord who had crushed his enemies tongues that day. The women throw themselves at his feet, the men take notes. the evolutionists weep. all are in awe. lol j/k. pretzel's attempt to rekindle the debate has been ended.... and the conversation does not go on and on.

author's note: i meant to be funny, i do not consider you my enemy Fox.

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by SKILORD
and then the crowd is silent in admiration for the great and mighty Skilord who had crushed his enemies tongues that day. The women throw themselves at his feet, the men take notes. the evolutionists weep. all are in awe. lol j/k. pretzel's attempt to rekindle the debate has been ended.... and the conversation does not go on and on.

author's note: i meant to be funny, i do not consider you my enemy Fox.

We'll see about that when the Multiplayer version of Civ3 comes out!

Nay, I don't consider you my enemy either...

 

[SKILORD]

dude i'll gladly prove it when multi comes out.

 

[xrang the II]

This is my new screen name. My other one wasn't working(couldn't log in).