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A strategy for Moorish UHV?

Discussion in 'Gameplay Guides' started by Genghis Khaiser, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Genghis Khaiser

    Genghis Khaiser King

    Aug 10, 2012
    The requirements are:
    -Own three cities in the Maghreb and conquer two cities in Iberia and West Africa by 1200 AD.
    -Build La Mezquita and have a total of four great engineers, prophets, and scientists in Cordoba by 1300 AD.
    -Acquire 3000 gold through piracy by 1650 AD.

    Here's what I figured out so far:
    -On the first turn, switch to Citizenship and (I think that's the one that gives extra production on pastures) Manorialism.
    -Focus Cordoba on Great People. Other cities won't build them in time, not even Marrakech.
    -Three things that have to be whipped as soon as possible in Cordoba are a Mosque, La Mezquita, and a Library, in that order. A Church can go instead of the Library in case Catholicism spreads to Cordoba.
    -First, beeline to Gunpowder, then to Exploration. Arab and Byzantium will be your two main trading partners.
    -The first settler should found Tunis, to secure the Stone resource there. Build a second settler to found Wahran or Al-Jazair.
    -Right after finishing La Mezquita, switch to Monasticism.
    -After that, keep a population of five or more, and build or whip a Forge and a Library, and work all Priest, Scientist and Engineer slots as possible.
    -Build as many Siege weapons in all other cities before you secure at least one Iron and one Horse resources. Then, two or three Lancers should be enough to take over Mali, and the rest should be used to help conquer Iberia. Both armies should be ready before 1100 AD.
    -Depending on game speed, Portugal may not be able to be declared war on before 1200 AD, so you will have to conquer two Spanish cities. The obvious first choice is Madrid. Barcelona is better than Santiago, as it has one silver resource.
    -After researching both Gunpowder and Exploration, build as many Corsairs as you can. Focus them on the Mediterranean, Africa and Asia. If Portugal is still alive, besiege Lisboa. If any European civ builds Frigates, they're doomed, so besiege Europe as much as you can before they arrive.
    1SDAN likes this.
  2. Emperor Peter

    Emperor Peter Warlord

    Aug 11, 2008
    Belgium (GMT+1)
    Instead of Wahran I like founding on the desert marble to grab the oasis to the south.
    Focus on taking out Spain first. I used Trebs and Horse Archers. Raze Madrid, keep Barcelona and pillage Santiagio into capitulation if necessary. While fighting in Spain workers build a road south from Marrakesh. Then send the army to Mali.
  3. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

    Feb 2, 2003
    Plymouth, MA
  4. Genghis Khaiser

    Genghis Khaiser King

    Aug 10, 2012
    Here's another thing I found more difficult than it looks: the Corsairs.

    How do I get the 3000 gold? I research Exploration somewhere between 1480 and 1550, and then I build Corsairs non-stop, whipping them whenever possible, except in Marrakech and Cordoba. They will almost always sink a Caravel and anything weaker than it, a Galleon challenges then, and a Frigate and above are an actual threat. However, it is not enough to meet the deadline.

    Where do I station them?
  5. catacau

    catacau Chieftain

    Oct 7, 2012
    You can blockade cities and gain gold every turn based on the city trade routes income. The city must be within blockade range (2 tiles distance max). England cities are pretty good for stealing gold this way. Once you start blocking their cities they will build a navy to stop you and you get even more income!! Try to blockade every city in Europe and in the Mediterranean, you will them have a 15-40 gold income per turn only by stealing their trade routes.

    Stack Corsairs in important cities like London and Constantinople for protection because your enemies will send a lot of ships to defend them.
  6. Genghis Khaiser

    Genghis Khaiser King

    Aug 10, 2012
    I did one that worked: Starting in the 3000 BC scenario, there may be a city or two already built on southern Spain, and most likely Carthage with a Wonder in it. Maybe another city in the Maghreb. Carthage can spawn some early Great People, depending on what Wonders were built on it.
    Switch to Monasticism and Citizenship right away.
    In Corboda, build these: Islamic Mosque → La Mezquita → Catholic Church (if it spreads into your city) → Library → Forge → Pharmacy → Harbor → Noria.
    Then you conquer Spain and Mali. Once you do, focus your cities entirely on Science until you have researched Gunpowder and Cartography.
    After that, build Corsairs non-stop in all your coastal cities. Whip them at any chance, except in Marrakech and Cordoba. Put stacks of at least three Corsairs around all European and Mediterranean coastal cities, and replace one if they are killed. If one of them starts building Frigates, leave them alone and move on to the next civ (This happens especially with France and Holy Rome). One or two Corsairs may be enough on Independent cities and backwards civs, like Mali (If it's still alive and settled on a shore), Congo, Mesoamerican civs, and Arabia.
  7. Enyavar

    Enyavar Prince

    May 16, 2015
    Cartography? That sounds like you made it in 1.15 already, congrats.
    I'm pretty sure that it was difficult because the research of Corsairs is so expensive. I chose the cheap strategy again: Inheriting a specially tailored precursor empire.

    My playthrough of the Moors (Normal, v1.15, Monarch) has its foundation on THIS Carthaginian empire as its basic switch.

    Things I did as Carthage after destroying the Romans:
    - Beeling for Islam. That included a campaign to capture an Egyptian city right the turn when I founded Theology and Islam in 260 AD. Holy city was Utica (later: Moroko). After Theology, I beelined for Architecture and Steel, then set the slider to 0%.
    - Stabilizing the Empire. That included razing the city on the Italian Dye and setting up the Palace in Rome, thus preventing the Romans from reclaiming these cities in the 2nd century. Having Rome as a city was important because it was my anchor city for Orthodoxy (next point), a major research, trade and production center, and most importantly because I wanted to not have my capital in Carthage when the Moor switch was due.
    - Turning to Orthodoxy after I built Baal temples in most of my cities. That ensured religious unity (for stability, Islam wasn't spread far enough for that!), it meant that I could get orthodox churches for a discount, and a shot for having the Hagia Sophia again.

    The Romans re-emerged early, in the year 180 AD already. That was a defining moment, because it meant that Greece, the tech-leader (of Europe) collapsed. The palace in Rome was already built, denying them their capital and forcing them to set up shop in Mediolanum+Bordeaux. Also, the Romans shared Orthodoxy, while the Gauls founded Catholicism in Lugdunon - having them as a common enemy stopped the Romans from having me as their worst enemy. It gave me the opportunity to gift my Egyptian city to the Romans right away, further ensuring their gratitude. The Romans also had their invasion armies in Egypt at that point, instead of in my north-african deserts. And, finally, as they didn't control all of their core, they were rather unstable, while still protecting my northern flank from Barbarians, even attracting the Visigoth barbs towards their Gaul cities.
    ... But when the Gauls got the chance to capture Mediolanum, I captured the city right the next turn and razed it. This Macchiavellism backfired, of course, because the Romans were gone instantly and now I had to defeat all the barbarians myself.

    The time until the rise of the Moors was well-spent with amassing gold and troops. Then I stationed all my soldiers in Qart-Gadir and Utica, signed over 3000 gold to the Moorish People and took over.
    Spoiler Ex-Carthage... :
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG
  8. Enyavar

    Enyavar Prince

    May 16, 2015
    That taking over took me a few turns, but even the green Atlas elephants I got from Carthage, were like unstoppable mediaeval tanks. I had to sacrifice more than a few foot soldiers, but I had so MANY of them that it was not a problem to vanquish Spain as soon as Tarraco flipped, and conquer Iol and Carthage.

    Spoiler Conquering/settling order: :
    - Utica (flipped as Capital, had to rename it to Morocco myself)
    - Qart-Gadir (flipped, had to rename it a Qartouba myself)
    - Qart-Hadasht (flipped, auto-renamed as Qartayannat al-Halfa)
    - Iol (conquered, auto-renamed as Sharshal)
    - Tanjah (settled, southernmost historical coast place)
    - Madrid (conquered, auto-renamed as Al-Magrit)
    - Qart Hadasht (conquered, auto-renamed as Qartaj)
    - Santander (conquered, razed)
    --> Spain vassalized with Tarragona as Capital and only city, in 780 AD. Divulged Feudalism.
    - Rome (conquered, kept)
    - Djenne, Timbuktu in 1110 AD.
    --> Mali vassalized with Gao as Capital and only city, in 1120 AD.
    - Tarragona (conquered, razed) in 1260
    - Lisabona (conquered, auto-renamed as Al-Ishbunia) in 1290
    - Done just for fun: Conqering of Inkas, Aztecs short before winning.

    Spoiler Tech Order: :
    - Politics (750 AD)
    - Civil Service (790 AD)
    - Education (830 AD)
    - Fortification (860)
    - Crop Rotation (890 AD)
    - Paper (910 AD)
    - Guilds (traded for Paper with Arabia in 910 AD, delayed alap because of Colossus)
    - Patronage (940 AD)
    - Finance (970 AD)
    - Compass (traded for Civil Service with Arabia in 910 AD)
    - Cartography (990 AD)
    - Exploration (1040 AD, Corsairs pre-req)
    - Commune (1050 AD)
    - Gunpowder (1100 AD, CORSAIRS HARRR!)
    - Doctrine (1120 AD)
    - Humanities (1150 AD)
    - Printing (1170 AD)
    - Academia (1210 AD, for Taj Mahal and Universities!)
    - Companies (1230 AD)
    - Logistics (1280 AD, for Red Fort)
    - Judiciary (1300 AD, for Topkapi Palace)
    - Optics (1360 for the fleet)
    - Geography (1380 AD)
    - Firearms (1410 AD)
    - (planned:) Statecraft, Urban Planning, Heritage (Blue Mosque), Civil Liberties, Horticulture, Social Contract, Combined Arms

    So: I really had an advantage here from taking over developed cities. If I had started the Moors regularly, Research would have been much slower. So kudos to Genghis Khaisar, who has done it.

    Civics order:
    - staying at original civics (Despotism, Slavery, Clergy, Vassalage, Merchant Trade, Souvereignty)
    - switching to Monasticism and Tributaries in 1080. Then another GE in Cordoba (sentenced to Manufactory). What did I have to DO to finally get a Great Prophet, please? I wanted to establish the muslim shrine already...
    - switching to Republic, Manorialism, Meritocracy, Regulated Trade 1230-1250: After the spawn of Portugal, Cordoba was starving and Republic is a way to feed the two specialist-rich core cities. Regulated Trade because it's "contemporary" and subsidizes Costum Houses. The other two because this package goes well together. Although vassalage was definitely missed with all my deployed military units...
    - ... so I returned to Despotism and Citizenship in 1300, so I could rush buildings in my cities again. That combination wasn't too stable, but it held together until I finished.

    Spoiler Wonder building Order: :
    - Hagia Sophia (finished as Carthage in Cordoba), Cothon+Colossus (in Carthage)
    - La Mezquita (in 750 AD in Cordoba)
    - Spiral Minaret (in 840 AD in Cordoba)
    - University of Sankore (in 900 AD in Cordoba)
    - wasted three great Engineers and one Scientist in Cordoba, for UHV
    - Taj Mahal (in 1300 AD, in Rome)
    - Masjid al-Haram (in 1300 AD, in Morocco)
    - Red Fort (1360 AD in Cordoba)
    - Topkapi Palace (1380 AD, only possible in Morocco)

    So, as described above, I subjugated Mali and made them like it, around the same time that I finally laid the foundation for the Worldwide Pirate Fleet that would later become known as "The Marine" in One Piece.
    Spoiler Piracy Gold: :
    1110: 30 Gold (Starting piracy in the Eastern Mediterranean: Egypt, Independent, Constantine and Seljuk coast)
    1150: 144 Gold (11 Corsairs, started raiding Portuguese, English and French coast)
    1200: 559 Gold (21 Corsairs, started raiding Viking and Tamil coast, one-time hits on East African Native coast and a Maya galleass)
    1250: 1169 Gold (first losses that get replaced. Started to raid Indian and Arabian Coasts)
    1300: 1926 Gold (stopped raiding Portuguese coast, started raiding Indonesian coast)
    1350: 2462 Gold (focussing on established raiding zones: North European, East Mediterranean, South Asian. Through blockade alone: 39 Gold/turn.)
    1400: 3059 Gold (UHV Victory, at that moment 30 Corsairs.)
    I had three main raiding zones: Northern Europe (Channel, North Sea, Baltic), East Mediterranean (bracketing the four cities in Greece) and East Asia (Tamil and Indonesian coast, mostly).

    The big problem were the Galleasses that had even chances to sink unpromoted corsairs, and regularly sunk highly promoted corsairs. With my usual saveloading technique, I managed to have only ten losses.
    What ships did the AI build for me to sink? The answer for the time between 1100 and 1400 is:
    7.7% war galleys (well, good old times)
    25% Heavy Galleys (they sometimes packed a punch)
    10% Cogs (would have been too easy)
    38% Galleasses (I had to assassinate several military instructors to stop the AI promoting them!)
    19% Caravels (they later started to build more Caravels instead of Galleasses. Is it maybe easier to start raiding later, when the AI thinks that Galleasses are outdated?)

    Well, you might have noticed that I finished the game 250 years (50 turns) before the deadline. I state again that I had the (unfair?) advantage of taking over Carthage. Building up the Moors to the same level I inherited would have taken probably a lot of more turns, and the deadline IS tough.

    The Islamic Emirate of Al-Andalus declared its independence in 1230 AD, even when The Marine hadn't been deployed near their only town of Tarragona. For their treachery, I sentenced the Andalusians to death by elephant-trampling. During their last breath, they said something about Reconquista, I guess.
    As distracting as the Spanish insurgency was, I didn't forget the stranglehold that Lisbon had put on Cordoba, in 1130. So. that city came next. My Carthagian starting army had become outdated and was only of use as cannon fodder, so I used them up except for a few Elite Elephants. That meant I had to build new land units. My Galleons also sailed to the new world and fetched two brand new armies, right in 1300 AD. Conquering Incas and Aztecs brought the Moor Empire to near-collapse (recession and overextension!) but I stopped teching for several turns, completed the vassalization, released the surplus cities and was stable again. Phew.

    Besides that exciting conquest in South America, I just collected tribute from all harbor cities my corsairs had reached so far, and won.
    Spoiler And Screenshots :
    Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0027.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0028.JPG

    Because it was so much fun, I continued playing Morocco. There wasn't much stability for expansion though, so I had to focus on my existing empire, and build up The Marine to 55 corsairs. I went for Jerusalem though, because I had an accidental great prophet and wanted to build the Jewish Shrine and the Temple on the Rock. Bam, early Arabia respawn. :sad:
    Mali, Aztecs and Inca collapsed around 1600. I made a pact with the Ottomans, and until 1700 prevented the European powers from establishing colonies. At all. :)
  9. Theophilos

    Theophilos Warlord

    Oct 3, 2016
    would allowing them to make colonies help things? wouldnt this allow more places to blockade, more ships to kill?

    (I am just wondering if I should let them discover the new world and take those cities, or should I stop them from doing that)
  10. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

    Sep 10, 2002
    Here with 1.16 version.
    I have big difficulties on conquer iberian cities in time.

    I trained 2 trebs, promoted to heavy swords those 2 swords, 2 horse archers, 2 promoted spears, but not enough.
    Maybe i have to attack earlier, or declare war asap and pillage their horses... i can't find a clear strategy.

    The problem is that Spain has 3 cities in Iberia.
    When i play as Spain i have no problems to conquer Cordoba: I can spend all my army and enter with last unit with just 0.1 of life, and keep Cordoba.
    Playing as Moors it is harder, because if i spend all my army to enter in Madrid, any unit from Barcelona can take the city back.
    I need more army but there is not enough time.

    Any help?
  11. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

    Sep 10, 2002
    I made some tests.
    Conquer two cities in Iberia and West Africa in 1200 AD means conquer and keep them, not just conquer and leave.
    I tried to conquer and raze Barcelona, and it does not count.
    I tried to let Spanish enter in Cordoba and reconquer it, and it does not count.
    To achieve the goal, Moors have to conquer both Madrid and Barcelona, and keep them til 1200AD.
    Maybe Spanish capitulate after that, or collapse, but two cities must be conquered.
    And army cannot be trained in Cordoba because Cordoba must build Mesquita.
  12. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

    Sep 10, 2002
    I think i found a trick for moors, but it seems i also found a bug.
    That's the trick.
    It is 770AD. I own Madrid with no casualties. And all those units in Barcelona are workers.
    And i also own a lot of workers on sheeps and wine, east of Cordoba.

    And no, i did not use World Builder at all.

    This is the sequence of moves:

    Turn 1) Do not settle on Cordoba. Move settler ad a missionary to Madrid instead.
    Move the rest of army but a missionary to the woods NW of Cordoba and stand by.

    Turn 2) Spanish pop up. Settle Madrid, convert it. Move the workers on those horses SW, and build a road! Your army is waiting on the woods.
    Move your transport to Marrakesh and wait before the border.

    Turn 3) Marrakesh flips. Marid ask to flip to Spanish. Agree to give it. The road has completed. Declare war. Enter their border with a spear first.
    Then your horses can move 2 tiles in their territories, so get Madrid back and garrison with all army (the road!!!). Spain will not attack.
    Enter in Marrakesh with your transport, load the settler and a crossbow and ship them to Cordoba.
    Maybe you can capture any worker in this turn

    Turn 4) Unload settler to Cordoba. Take advantage of any weak move of spanish. In the game above they move a stack of 1 crossbow and two swords on a plain, to protect a settler. I attacked them with horses and a crossbow.

    Turn 5) Spain agree to make peace.

    Advantages of this sequence:
    Got Madrid with no casualties. Lot of workers. Spain weak and divided. Spain with no iron.

    Capital moved to Marrakesh. Conquest of Madrid does not count as conquered cities in iberia!!! In the victory page i read 0/2. Why??? :cry:

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  13. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

    Sep 10, 2002
    It is hard! Tudela trick makes easier the conquest of Spain but it delays settling of Cordoba of few turns, and Cordoba is not capital, so i was not able to make those 4 GP in Cordoba. One of GP should be trained elsewere to get it in time (1300).
    The other point is piracy. I got techs for corsairs about in 1400 and normal speed of game does not help. (Tudela trick is possible just on normal speed). I'm thinking of another trick to solve the puzzle. I'll let you know.

    Anyway this game with moors is definitely historical accurate with costant war with Spain until reverse Reconquista, and mediterranan piracy.

    I built spiral minaret in Madrid and i avoided to build Sankore university because there are no desert tiles in Spain. :lol:
  14. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

    Sep 10, 2002
    At last UHV3 is easily doable.
    There is a big bonus when Dutch come in game. A stack of Indiamen, caravels and workboats wrecked in one turn!

    So the hard part is just UHV 2, that can be solved building a Great Mosquee in Marrakesh ASAP and get a Great Prophet there.

    BTW lot of fun.
    Land warfare in first half of the game, naval battles in the second half.


    Attached Files:

  15. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

    Sep 10, 2002
    Done! At last!


    Attached Files:

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