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A study about Army units: what can and can't they do?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Wolfhart, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    This is a study of how armies and their abilities work.

    There are two main rules, both with a few exceptions:

    1. Unit Abilities like Blitz and All Terrain As Roads work if the army has them checked in the editor
    OR if all units loaded in the army are of the same type and have the abilities checked.

    (This is an inclusive OR, meaning that it works also if both parts apply)

    This is confirmed for Wheeled, Foot Unit, All Terrain As Roads, Blitz, Radar, Amphibious, Invisible, Immobile, and Detect Invisible. It’s also confirmed for Ignore Move Cost.

    Please observe that if you load an army with different types of units who all have the same ability like Blitz, the army still won’t be able to blitz unless it has Blitz enabled itself. The army will only inherit the ability if all units in it are of the same type.

    A partial exception is Detect Invisible, since any unit will keep it's own ability to do this even though the army don't inherit it. This would show if you have a unit with Detect Invisible together with another unit in an army with Radar: you can see the invisible units in the squares next to you, but only visible units at a range of two squares.

    Hidden Nationality does NOT work when checked for an army and the army contains units which are not of Hidden Nationality. The nationality of those loaded units is recognized by the AI (and by you if you encounter such an army). If all units in the army are of the same type and of Hidden Nationality the Army will be so too and will treated like that by the AI; they attack on sight! But there is a graphical bug: the human player can see the correct civilization colour on the unit loaded in the Army, which itself is of neutral colours.

    2. Special Actions like Airdrop and Bombard work only if the army has them checked in the editor.

    This is confirmed for Airdrop, Airlift, Pillage, Bombard, Capture, and Stealth Attack (assassin army!). This applies also to Worker/Engineer Actions and Air Missions (see down below).

    Any Special or Worker/Engineer Actions of the units loaded in the army cannot be used: it is the Army who must have these checked. This means that an army of Paratroopers still won’t be able to paradrop if the Army hasn’t Airdrop checked. This also means that it is the restrictions of the army that rule:
    • Airdrop range will be the Operational Range of the Army, not the one of the loaded Paratroopers
    • Bombard Strength and Bombard Range will be the Army’s own, not that of any units in it
    • the possible targets of Stealth Attack will be those the Army has checked, not those of any loaded Assassin
    • Worker Strength will be the Army’s own
    • and so on.
    A special case is Enslave. Any loaded unit’s ability to Enslave will still be working, and that also means that an army loaded with different kinds of units with the ability to Enslave may create different kinds of units depending on which unit is doing the battle. For example: if the Army holds a unit with high Attack Strength who creates new Longbowmen, and a unit with high Defense Strength who creates new Pikemen, you will usually create Longbowmen when you attack, and Pikemen when you defend.

    To make it even more complicated: the Army itself may also Enslave, but only through Lethal Bombardment. If the Army has Bombard with Lethal Bombardment and Enslave checked, it will create its own unit type when your army kills off an enemy with bombardment.

    The army’s ability to kill off enemies with Lethal Bombardment means that the army itself may gain Combat Experience, go Elite and ultimately create a Leader.

    This Army bombardment could be better represented in the Army unit graphics. Like in other land units bombardment uses the Attack1 flic, and the epic Army units only shouts in this animation. Having Bombard Fx checked helps a little, but who will be the first to create an modern Army unit with mortars or light howitzers firing as Attack animation (representing Corps or Division artillery), or a fantasy Army unit with a Wizard casting spells on the evil enemy?


    Anything else?
    Oh yeah, the Transports Only Foot Units and Transports Only Tactical Missiles flags can be used for an army, also in combination, but not the Transports Only Aircrafts.

    Army as an Air Unit works, but badly; it will load aircrafts if the Transports Only Aircrafts flag is set and give these an extra movement point which with Blitz means an extra Air Mission. But the Air Missions must be enabled for the Army, and like the land army it will use the Army’s own Bombard Strength, not that of the aircrafts. When used for Bombing mission a graphical bug appear: the army is in its original place but the graphics of the aircraft in it hangs still beyond the bombing target.

    Army as an Sea unit does not work, since ships won’t load in it. Even if the ships have Load checked under Special Actions the button refuses to appear when the ship is in the same square as the Sea Army.

    About upgrading armies:
    An army unit can upgrade to another army unit only in a city with Barracks AND Military Academy (or other buildings with the flags Veteran Ground Units and Build Armies Without Leader). To be able to upgrade into an army unit your civilization must also have one army less than it’s able to support. E.g. if the number of Cities Needed to Support an Army is four and you already have two armies, you must have at least twelve cities in order to upgrade those armies. Observe that it doesn’t matter how many armies you want to upgrade, as long as your civilization can support one more.

    When an army unit has been upgraded into another army unit it will unlike other upgraded units be able to move at the same turn you upgraded it, with all its movement points at your disposal regardless of how many you spent before the upgrade.

    If the army unit upgrades into a non-army unit, the units loaded in the army will be unloaded with all their movement points at your disposal. This is the only way to get the loaded units out of an army.

    RS74 came up with this way of unloading units in armies which works splendidly:
    So, any questions? :viking:

    Edit: added the content of the post below.
    Edit Jul 01: added quote of RS74
     
  2. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    Added some more findings to above:

    Immobile is also an Unit Ability that the Army may inherit if all the units loaded in the army is of the same type with Immobile checked. This also means that if you have an immobile unit with Load checked, you could load it into an army together with a mobile unit and thus make the immobile unit mobile!

    The army’s ability to kill off enemies with Lethal Bombardment means that the army itself may gain Combat Experience, go Elite and ultimately create a Leader.

    An army unit can upgrade to another army unit only in a city with Barracks AND Military Academy (or other buildings with the flags Veteran Ground Units and Build Armies Without Leader). To be able to upgrade into an army unit your civilization must also have one army less than it’s able to support. E.g. if the number of Cities Needed to Support an Army is four and you already have two armies, you must have at least twelve cities in order to upgrade those armies. Observe that it doesn’t matter how many armies you want to upgrade, as long as your civilization can support one more.

    When an army unit has been upgraded into another army unit it will unlike other upgraded units be able to move at the same turn you upgraded it, with all its movement points at your disposal regardless of how many you spent before the upgrade.

    If the army unit upgrades into a non-army unit, the units loaded in the army will be unloaded with all their movement points at your disposal. This is the only way to get the loaded units out of an army.
     
  3. cubsfan6506

    cubsfan6506 Got u

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    This should go in the war acadamy.
     
  4. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    Not really, this is not about strategy and tactics when playing Civ3. The info above about armies is useful mainly to people doing their own mods and scenarios, e.g. the people on this forum. :)
     
  5. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    Note that having Immobile units with Load checked is dangerous: if built or placed in a coastal city, the AI is likely to try and load them into a ship, whereupon the game crashes.
     
  6. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    Thanks, that's interesting. I must look into that later... :mischief:
     
  7. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Thanks for the info! Here's a question:
    I've been thinking about adding special units with big hit point bonuses to my mod, but i want to limit them by adding the army flag so you need n cities to build one. But I dont want that unit to work like an army, no loading other units into it. Is this possible?
     
  8. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    Hey, that was an interesting idea! But unfortunately we are thwarted by hardcoding... when you check the army flag the unit gets Attack and Defense Strength 0, regardless of it having a transport capacity or not.
     
  9. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    What you can do, however, is setting normal unit as the "Build Army" unit under General settings. Such a unit can only be built with leaders or with a Mil Acad, which limits the numbers that can be fielded in practice.

    Additionally, it can only be built if you've got enough cities to support one army, but those cities can then support an unlimited number of such units.
     
  10. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    I had to test this, 'cause I would love it to work!

    Setting a non-army unit as the Build Army unit under General Settings means that the Leader can "build" it anytime in any city, as long as you have at least as many cities as the number of Cities Needed to Support an Army under General Settings.

    This unit can also be built normally by any city if it is enabled for your civilization, you have the prerequisite tech and the city has access to the required resources. If not enabled for any civ the only way to get it will be through Leaders, but all civs will have access to it through Leaders.

    The Military Academy will only build the unit with the Army flag that is enabled for your civ, nothing else. If no army unit is enabled for your civ, the Military Academy won't let you build any extra unit.
     
  11. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    Hm. It seems my memory failed me on that point; you are indeed correct.

    Something else that's not intuitve: the max one leader restriction is tied to the battle-spawned unit field under general settings, not the Leader flag. Failing to check the Leader flag for a battle-spawned unit will make it use the usual name of the unit instead of a name off the Great Leader list - I do not recall whether setting the flag on a normally built unit results in that getting a Great Leader name.
     
  12. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    Yes it does :). I remember one of the school scenarios did it.
     
  13. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    Ok, so setting a non-leader unit, not enabled for any civ, as Battle-Created Unit in General Settings would be a one-of-a-kind unit? Any civ can only get one of these? That is cool, that is a true Hero unit :D
     
  14. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Well its unfortunate that my idea wont work, at least not like i wanted it to. I want multiple special units so The Last Conformist's idea wont work for me. But I'll share another idea I had, could be limited by giving it the army flag but that wont make it work... So there will be no limit to the number of these units you can have, here's how to do it:

    Create unit A, lets call it "Legionary*" (the * is just to diferentiate it from the standard Legionary), give it the same stats as the Legionary but make it available to NO civilization! This will make the unit unbuildable!

    Create unit B, lets call it "Legion", give it the same stats as the Legionary, but add the "King" flag and give it a big hit point bonus and make it much more expensive. By giving it the king flag you'll be making it unbuildable as well. Make sure its available to your civ and you give it a valid tech prerequisite though.

    Make a city improvement or small wonder auto produce unit A (the Legionary*) every n turns.

    Make unit A upgrade to unit B

    The unit cost of unit A is not important since its auto produced, but the diference of cost betwen unit A and B will determine the amount of gold required for upgrading.

    Although you cant build unit A or B, you may have lots of them at the same time as unit A is auto produced, the upgrade works and I think but am not sure right now you can continue upgrading and have more than one Legion! If you have enough money you'll be able to buy super units that are similar to armies! I havent set this up in my mod yet, but I tested a similar idea with settlers. Have a Housing improvement auto produce a Peasant unit every 25 turns, its the only way to have Peasants, and they upgrade to settlers which have the king flag, the upgrade costs some 500 gold :) Its one way to limit expantion, and this works for the AI with one condition:

    Unit A (or the Peasant in my mod) must be an offensive unit, which means it must have attack and defense. This is because in my trials I didnt see the AI upgrading other unit types, like workers. They only upgraded offensive units.
     
  15. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    Yep, this will work nicely! :)

    Yep, this is true, you can upgrade all A units you got to B units as long as you have the cash for it :D

    As long as you remember one thing about units with the King flag: they will only defend if they're alone or stacked with other King units. Any other poor unit stacked with them will be forced to face the attacking enemy first before the King unit does, even if it has a much lower defense value. That is hardcoded in Civ3 to protect the King units, unfortunately... :sad:
     
  16. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    That last bit is unfortunate :( I guess I'll have to live with it
     
  17. Bluemofia

    Bluemofia F=ma

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    This is so awesome I request it to be moved into the tutorials and guides section.
     
  18. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    This is a very old methode. I think the first time I have heard about it, was in a posting by Wyrmshadow years ago for a unit upgradable but not buildable and it concerned the battleship Iowa. edited: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98721 We tried this methode to build battleships with their unique names. It did work - but only for the human player. The AI didn´t upgrade these ships.

    Edited: What are your experiences now with this methode for the AI by upgrading land units with attack and defense values? In our tests, the ships that should upgrade to battleships, had no attack/defense values. They only were "hulls". May be these tests must be repeated with offensive settings. Just have seen, Madeira, you posted the same experience in an old thread of 2004 to Wyrmshadow: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2285205&postcount=15 and explained the upgrading trick to him in the thread with the link above.

    Edited:Bluemofia: post 6666. You have to give us some free drinks. :D
     
  19. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Yea my guess is the AI wont upgrade those "hulls", maybe you could try giving it attack and defense of 1 and make it immobile. Havent tried this with naval units but it should work.

    Rechecked that old thread, its what I said, the AI will upgrade units flagged as offensive, had no luck with workers or artillery, thats why I had to make my "Peasants" a low attack/defense unit. Im a bit tired of this system because the AI sends them on suicide missions, but they do upgrade them if they have the money. I've played a few times since I posted that idea the first time, in my mod it was the only way to build settlers (removed goody huts too) and after some time you came across a new AI city ;)
     
  20. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    No the AI didn´t upgrade the ships, even with offensive settings.

    Anyway, this was a great idea you had, Madeira. :clap: It´s noted in my notice book for modding for some years.
     

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