A suggestions to improve sceintific leaders

[civzombie]

Problem: At the higher difficulty levels, it is nigh impossible to be the first to research a new tech unless you beat down all of your opponents. You cant play a peaceful builder game and be the first to research techs. Thus, it is basically impossible to get the leaders, and almost impossible to build wonders and a whole AWESEOME feature of the game is lost.

Humble solution:
Make it so that you have a chance to get a scientific leader IF you research a tech (as opposed to aquiring it another way). Drop the percentage from what it is now, and give people and incentive to research themselves even if they are not the first to get the technology.

Opinions?

 

[Civrules]

Good thinking but it is a bit too powerful. High levels are high levels. They are there to make the game a big challenge.

 

[civzombie]

Do you play the higher difficulty levels?

I dont want them less challanging, the problem is the challange isnt balanced. As everyone knows, warmongering is the only real way to win by capitalizing on the AIs inability to conduct war.

My suggestion intends to make the peaceful builder route more possible. I assume that this was the goal of science leaders, but their mechanics break down at high difficultly levels since the human cant keep up with research. There current mechanics once again encourage warmongers.

 

[cgannon64]

True. Anyway, its not impossible. In an Emperor game I am playing right now I am going up the military side of the Middle Ages tree while the AIs are going up the peaceful side. I am the first to research all of those techs, and I trade them for 2-4 of the peaceful techs.

So I have a good chance to get a SGL.

 

[civzombie]

Maybe I should move down to emporer, I was concerned it would be too easy.

 

[cgannon64]

Too easy to get an SGL? I disagree with that, it is still pretty hard, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get one.

 

[civzombie]

I meant emporer might be too easy to win the game...

I like a challange, but on Deity I cant seem to be able to be the first to complete techs unless I beat and cripple my oppoenents into vassle states, in which case I could win anyway

 

[cgannon64]

Try Demigod, its meant to bridge that gap.

 

[Arathorn]

I can sympathize with civzombie a bit here. On Emperor, it's far too easy to run away from the AI and research everything yourself (even though I did that and got no SGLs, at least I had the chance for many). On deity, I find it nearly impossible to get techs first, although I'll probably start trying again. Sid? Well, it can be done, even without warmongering, but it requires a fair bit of luck (guessing what the AI might research next). Maybe I can try Demigod.

The deeper problem, though, is that once you can research one tech first, you're likely to be able to sell it for enough gold and gpt to research the next tech first, and the next and the next...at which point the game is won. If you can't research first, you can throw away a lot of gold trying and it's gold that is safer to put into a warmongering chest and win that way.... No idea how to fix that design problem....

arathorn

 

[chiefpaco]

That isn't a bad idea. That may assume the point of including the Sci Leaders is to reward doing your own research. However, by rewarding any civ that self discovers, even if it is by a lesser chance than being the first, I think the purpose of the SLs is still held intact. You can still be a genious for a discovery even if you are not the first to it.

Just how much every AI discovers their own tech is unknown to me. Do most civs acquire tech by trade or by research? Especially at the higher levels.