A thought on Cultural Victory and War

Minou

King
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
845
After playing the last Game of the Month, I had the thought that the flavor of Cultural Victory would be greatly improved if Civ sent no tourists while at war. During the game I realized it is worthwhile to declare war on any Civ which won't open borders even if they are way out of attacking range just to wait 10 turns, declare peace, and sign Open Borders for the 25% tourism bonus. They will always (at least in my experience) sell Open Borders the turn peace is signed and since being at war carries no tourism penalties (unless you had a trade route to them which will cancel), you gain net tourism in the long run. This is aside from the advantages of pillaging and conquering cities of course.

Why not reduce tourism to 0 during a war? Or, at least decreasing it by 75% to mirror some small level of illegal tourism by dissidents. The advantages:

From an immersion standpoint it makes lots of sense. It's not like the Allies and Axis were exchanging thousands of tourists during World War 2. It seems so weird in the game to see 500 tourists waiting in line to see the Pyramids while you are burning their capital.

So many victory types are reduced to modified Domination victories, at least if you are going for the fastest time. This change make peaceful play more balanced for Cultural Victory. Even if you still wanted to do some warmongering, it add some strategy in terms of judging when starting and ending a war is worth it relative to the tourism costs (probably very worth it early in the game and increasingly a net loss near the end).
 
>guy is winning culture victory
>everyone declares war on him
>no more tourists for him
>impossible to get victory

that's why, I imagine.

Yeah, that would definitely be a problem in MP. For balance purpose, the penalty should be applied only if you're the one who declared war, maybe reduce the penalty if you use a casus belli.
 
I like this idea and agree and it should only apply if the cultural-victory-Civ declares war. Tourists from the other civ would not want to visit an aggressor Civ.
 
@criZp Fair enough, I never play MP and that would be an issue (though I get the impression most MP games end in <100 turns due to someone gaining military advantage). Maybe then 50% penalty instead of no tourists at all. Of course third party Civs should still send tourists, though maybe there should be a smaller tourism penalty should from those that have Denounced you (like 10-25%, think of it like the USA frowning on citizens visiting Cuba despite letting it happen).
 
When you send a trade route you get +75% with the policy card.
Which is much worthwhile than open border +25%. You're sacrificing large to gain small.
 
Anyone else find culture far too slow/difficult compared to the other victory conditions in Vanilla 6? I can grind out a fast conquest and religious victory pretty easily, even a decent speed space race. But culture, just drags on forever compared to the other win conditions. And is compounded if you have another Civ going for a culture victory cross continent so no easy war declarations to remove the Civ as competition for great works.

Even if you have pharmed 95% of the great works, you still need some faith for national parks. You need industry for Wonders to attract tourists, just seems really clunky with too many moving components. By the time you are building national parks you could have already won a Religious or conquest victory.
 
CV is one of the faster victories if you push it hard and to the needful like open borders and trade routes with everyone.
The thing with CV is it grows in difficulty with game turns.

The one thing that's really annoying to me about a CV is when a civ gets the card of not allowing your rock bands on their territory. Once a civ with the highest domestic tourists gets that, is there any way to counteract it?

I'm no CV expert (I usually go for a SV), but I've read that you want to use rock bands in the civ that has the most domestic tourists. Does it really matter where you use your rock bands?
 
Targetting the AI with the highest enemy is the best for Rock Bands, but targeting the second highest (or any other) will still help towards the victory. In my experience an AI that has the 'anti rock band' card in, typically switches it out soon after, so you can always wait for that.
 
is there any way to counteract it?
No, not directly, choose another civ? Or use other tourism.
but I've read that you want to use rock bands in the civ that has the most domestic tourists. Does it really matter where you use your rock bands?
Yes, absolutely. In the link below on Rock Bands is all the detail including explaining the value of using it against the culture leader, basically that 16/34 you are targeting is based on the 34 caused by the culture leader. Every tourist you get from them reduces that 34 as well as increasing the 16.
 
No, not directly, choose another civ? Or use other tourism.

Yes, absolutely. In the link below on Rock Bands is all the detail including explaining the value of using it against the culture leader, basically that 16/34 you are targeting is based on the 34 caused by the culture leader. Every tourist you get from them reduces that 34 as well as increasing the 16.

I'm starting to try CVs more often, so this info really helps. Thanks!
 
Lily, I assume the card you are referring to is Online Communities. That’s true later in the game for sure but I was thinking much earlier in the game. This was also playing a Prince GOTM where it is possible to win well before hitting Social Media civic.
 
Back
Top Bottom