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A Thousand Ages of Gold: RFC India

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by srpt, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    A Thousand Ages of Gold

    RFC India 900BC-1800AD

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    svn repository

    I started working on this a couple of weeks ago and found I couldn't stop:

    To me, if there's a part of the world that deserves it's own RFC mod, it's definitely India. I have been interested in history, especially older history, since I was a child, but India had always been something of a blank spot. So many times the historical atlas would just say "many small kingdoms" or something like that. There was the striking figure of Asoka, the brilliance of the Gupta golden age, and a distinct shortage of the detailed documents and archaeological finds which were illuminting contemporary Mediterranean civilization so vividly. I got curious while playing the Sword of Islam (I was so disappointed when I came to the edge of the map just at the start of the Ganges plain!) and then I was forced to actually do some research while working on RFC Classical World. Attempting to learn about ancient India can provide more questions than answers. Is Varanasi really thousands of years older than Jericho or Catal Huyuk? Were the Harrapans speakers of a Dravidian language and were they related to the Elamites and maybe also the Georgians and Basques? Did the Mahabharata war take place and was it a struggle between invading Aryans and defending Dravidians? Will we ever know?

    The first decision I made when starting to think about this project was that there would be an abundance of civs. I went through the online historical atlas and wrote down every civ that appeared. That gave me over 50. Then I decided to move the start date back to Vedic times and added 12 of the Mahajanapanda kingdoms that occupied the Indo-Gangetic plain then. Closely following on the first decision were two others: no unique units, buildings or powers and no unique victory conditions. This may seem like a great loss but I can't see any way around it. There are well over 60 civs and many of them are very obscure. To compensate I have reintroduced leader traits and written a flexible set of victory conditions with more than one path to success. There are a number of goals divided into four catergories: military, religious, cultural/scientific and gold. The player must achieve one goal per catergory to win. This can be expanded and adapted as the mod progresses, including the possibility of making all the goals harder but granting victory with any three catergories fulfilled for even more flexibility.

    These are the victory conditions as they stand now:

    Spoiler :
    1. Capture 25 cities OR vassalize 3 rivals OR produce 5 Great Generals, all while never losing any cities
    2. Become a saint OR found a religion
    3. Control a legendary city OR be the first to discover 4 techs OR build at least 2 wonders
    4. Acquire 25,000 gold and have the most gold in India


    The current version allows playing as all civs up to 200BC, a total of 21 civs. the tech tree is finished up to roughly that point. I'm going to try to flesh out the ancient era with some more buildings and wonders.

    Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism are all unfounded at the start of the scenario. Religion "founding" is obviously taken rather loosely here, but a case can be made for each. Hinduism requires only one tech and is usually founded by turn 15 or so. This represents the transition from what is generally called "Vedism" to what is generally called "Brahmanism". It is frequently founded in Varanasi, due to a dye providing commerce to that city from the first turn. Mahavira, the 24th and last Tirthankara or prophet/teacher of Jainism, was a contemporary of Gautama Buddha and was the great reformer and popularizer of his religion. In this mod Jainism and Buddhism are founded by two different techs, identical in cost and prerequisites, two techs after the Hinduism tech. So far religious buildings are not identical from religion to religion, but they all have equivalent shrines. In the auto-plays I have run up to the Nanda spawn (450BC) all three religions are present nearly every time. To aid the early spread of Hinduism to each of the starting civs, researching Priesthood (the Hinduism founding tech) will spread the religion to your capital if it is already founded.

    Civics are a bit of a work in progress and not many of them are available in this scenario. There are two catergories of religious civics, one for religious organization and one for religious tolerance.

    Settlers require a tech that may not be reachable before the time limit due to other tech priorities but many barb cities spawn on the first turn so there is opportunity for expansion through conquest. If you move any of your units on the first turn it is possible to interrupt the city spawning so for now its best to sit tight for one turn. Other barb cities continue to spawn at scripted times and places.

    There will be corporations, representing foreign merchants (Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Silk Road etc). Each will generate commerce based on resources and will give access to a foreign resource. The first of them start showing up after this starting scenario.

    Stability and Piety are both included. Stability is so far unchanged and seems to be generating good results but Piety is in the process of being modified to suit the different levels of religious tolerance.

    Leaderheads are static. Some are much better than others. Flags are generic horizontal stripes in the civs colors.

    The map is 60x80. Big enough but not huge.

    This is not carved in stone, but here is the civ list I am working with:
    Spoiler :
    Playable civs:
    CIV START DATE HOME PROVINCE CAPITAL LEADER RELIGION LANGUAGE
    Kashi 800bc Kashi Varanasi Brihadratha Sanskrit
    Magadha 800bc Magadha Rajaghiri Bimbisara Sanskrit
    Vrijji 800bc Vrijji Vaishali Vishal Sanskrit
    Kosala 800bc Kosala Sravasti Sahadeva Sanskrit
    Panchala 800bc Panchala Kannauj Drupada Sanskrit
    Malla 800bc Malla Kampilya Sastipal Sanskrit
    Vatsa 800bc Vatsa Kausambi Udayana Sanskrit
    Surasena 800bc Surasena Mathura Avantiputra Sanskrit
    Avanti 800bc Avanti Ujayani Pradyota Sanskrit
    Kuru 800bc Kuru Hasthinapura Shantanu Sanskrit
    Matsya 800bc Matsya Viratanagara Virata Sanskrit
    Gandhara 800bc Gandhara Takshashila Pushkarasakti Sanskrit
    Nandas 450bc Magadha Patna Mahapadna Hindu Sanskrit
    Anuradhapura 370bc Sri Lanka Anuradhapura Pandukadhaya Buddhist Sinhala
    Mauryans 325bc Magadha Patna Asoka Buddhist Sanskrit
    Cholas 300bc Tamil Nadu Killivalavan Thiruvarur Hindu Tamil
    Kalinga 300bc Kalinga Singhapura Kharavela Jain Telugu?
    Satavahanas 230bc Maharashtra Amaravati Satakarni Hindu Telugu
    Indo-Greeks 220bc Gandhara Taxila Menander Hellenic Greek
    Pandyans 200bc Tamil Nadu Madurai Nedunj Hindu Tamil
    Cheras 200bc Kerala Vanchi Senguttuvan Hindu Tamil
    Sungas 180bc Magadha Patna Pusyamitra Hindu Sanskrit
    Sakas 90bc Sindh Pattala Atheas Hindu
    Kushans 50ad Gandhara Kabul Kanishka Buddhist
    Pallavas 210ad Tamil Nadu Kanchi Simhavishnu Hinduism Tamil
    Kalabhras 210ad Tamil Nadu Kaveripattinam Tiraiyan Buddhist Tamil
    Chutu 210ad Karnataka Banavasi Chutukulananda
    Vakatakas 230ad Maharashtra Vatsagulma Pravarasena Hindu Sanskrit
    Guptas 320ad Magadha Patna Chandragupta Hindu Sanskrit
    Gangas 350ad Karnataka Kolar Konganivarma Jain Kannanda
    Kamarupa 360ad Assam Pragjyotishpur Pushya Varman Hindu Sanskrit
    Kadamba 340ad Karnataka Banavasi Mayurasharma Hindu Kannanda
    Hephthalites 460ad Gandhara Sialkot Mihirakula Buddhist
    Sindh (Rai dyn) 490ad Sindh Alor Chach Hindu
    Nepal 500ad Nepal ???
    Chalukyas 530ad Karnataka? Badami Pulakesi Hindu Kannanda
    Kasmir 570ad Kasmir Srinagar Lalitaditya Buddhist
    Harsha 570ad Kannauj Kannauj Harsha Buddhist
    Pratiharas 570ad Malwa Ujjain Nagabhata Hindu Sanskrit
    Maitrakas 570ad Gujurat Vallabhi Bhatarka Hindu
    Tibet 620ad Tibet Lhasa Songsten Gampo Buddhist
    Ajmer 750ad Rajputana Ajmer Prithviraj Hindu
    Rashstrakuta 760ad Karnataka Manyakheta Dantidurga Hindu Kannanda
    Palas 760ad Bengal Gaur Devapala Buddhist Pali
    Malwa 800ad Malwa Dhar Bhoja Hindu
    Later Cholas 850ad Tamil Nadu Thanjavur Rajendra Hindu Tamil
    Gujurat 940ad Gujurat Anhilwara Sidhraj Hindu
    Ghaznavids 960ad Afghanistan Ghazni Mahmoud Muslim
    Eastern Chalukyas 980ad Karnataka? Badami Hindu Kannanda
    Sindh 1010ad Sindh Mansura Dodo Muslim
    Bengal(Sena dyn) 1070ad Bengal Nabadwip Keshab Hindu
    Hoysala 1110ad Karnataka Halebidu Nripa Kama Hindu Kannanda
    Ghorids 1150ad Gandhara Kabul Muslim
    Kakatiya 1170ad Andhra Orugallu Rudradeva Hindu Telugu
    Delhi 1200ad Uttar Delhi Muslim
    Kamata 1230ad Assam Gosanimari*
    Bengal Sultanate 1340ad Bengal Calcutta Muslim
    Vijayanagara 1340ad Karnataka Vijayanagara Hindu
    Bahmanis 1350ad Karnataka Ahsenabad Muslim
    Later Pandyans 1250ad Tamil Nadu Madurai Jatavarman Hindu Tamil
    Bijapur 1490ad Karnataka Bijapur Muslim
    Ahmadnagar 1500ad Maharashtra Ahmadnagar Muslim
    Mughals 1520ad Uttar Agra Muslim
    Golkonda 1520ad Andhra Golkonda
    Mysore 1560ad Karnataka Mysore
    Marathas 1680ad Maharashtra Hindu
    Duranni 1750ad Afghanistan Kabul Muslim

    Non-playable civs
    Achaemenids 530bc
    Macedonians/Seleucids 330bc
    Parthians 140bc
    Sassanids 230ad
    Arabs 660ad
    Mongols 1220ad
    Timurids 1340ad
    Safavids 1500ad
    Portuguese 1510ad
    British 1640ad
    French 1680ad




    There are four Wonders buildable in the early game representing four of the great epics of ancient India: the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Mahabharata and the Ramayana. They all boost either great people or great general production and have other effects. They can only be built by great people. (prophet for the Vedas, prophet or scientist for the Upanishads, prophet or artist for the other two, although only prophets will probably be available early). Each also requires a tech.

    The Nandas spawn at Pataliputra in 450BC with a large army, destroying the Magadhan and Vrijjian capitals if they are AI and flipping the provinces of Magadha, Vrijji and Kashi. The Achaemenids invade the provinces of Sindh, Gandhara and Arachosia around 530BC.

    Some notes on the starting situations of the civs:
    Spoiler :
    Kashi: you should be able to found Hinduism if you want to. Varanasi is one of the best cities on the map and you start with the city already founded with 2 population. you only start with one spearman though so you can't take any barb cities right away without extreme risk. the province of Kashi is in the Nandas core but since there is only room for one city and it is your capital it will not flip.
    Magadha: two barb cities to take and room to expand south. the Nanadas will steal your core (but not your capital) so you have to plan for that.
    Kosala, Kuru, Vrijji: all north of the valley in the Himalayan foothills. less cramped than the valley civs. Vrijji is also in the Nandas core.
    Panchala, Malla, Vatsa: central valley. very cramped, especially Malla. Panchala has horses.
    Surasena: centred on Mathura. room to expand north and west and access to horses.
    Matsya: Rajastan area. not cramped, lacks food. can expand to Punjab and Sindh but then must deal with the Persians.
    Avanti: Malwa area. not cramped. room expand south and west. far from the Nandas.
    Gandhara: lots of room but you must deal with Persia. (just build and tech defensively and you should survive ie walls and archers). very far from the Nandas.


    I intend to try to get this complete quickly. The lack of unique assets means that this is possible. So far I am up to the Satavahanas and balance seems quite reasonable. The Nandas and Mauryans don't reach their historical extent but they do control the Ganges plain and become the most powerful civs.

    Thanks go primarily to Rhye for the RFC idea, embryodead for refining the engine to its current highly evolved state and Bakuel for all the unit art, without which I wouldn't have attempted this.
     
  2. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    reserved
     
  3. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    and again
     
  4. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Wow. Quite ambitious. I'll give it a try, then maybe some feedback.
     
  5. ales_

    ales_ Heir

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    Which online historical atlas have you used?
     
  6. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    First impressions: Wow. Nice map. Seems pretty good, and definitely big enough even for those somewhat cramped Mahajanapada kingdoms. For two weeks, and with all the other stuff there (barbarian city spawns, decent tech tree, etc.), wow.

    First nitpick: The colour for Magadha is dark, which makes it hard to read, especially against black (undiscovered areas). Perhaps brighten it a bit?

    I disagree about not being able to find UBs, UUs, UPs, and UHVs. For some of the Mahajanapada kingdoms, they will be hard to find, but never underestimate the creativity and tenacity of this community. :p At the very least, UHVs won't be too hard to think up. Have you seen the old RFC India idea thread here? Scratch that, I just realized you posted there. :blush: It's just not right for an RFC modmod to not have UHVs. And I do hope some of the larger provinces are going to be split up eventually.
     
  7. FirstThunder

    FirstThunder Chieftain

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    I'll check this out soon. I'm sure it'll be amazing. You never cease to amaze srpt.
     
  8. Baron03

    Baron03 Baron

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    If anything in my old idea for an RFC India can help you out, by all means use it.
    I'm really happy that India finally has its own RFC mod.
     
  9. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    I had completely forgotten about that other project but I guess I knew about it cause I posted in the thread.

    yes some of those large provinces will be split up. they will also get new names in later eras.

    you give me the list of unique assets and I'll be happy to include them, but I don't want it to slow down development.
     
  10. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    this one

    I'm not vouching for its accuracy, its just a starting point.
     
  11. ales_

    ales_ Heir

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    Yes, it has some mistakes but it's the only online atlas I have seen.
     
  12. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Evangelism's bonus is +188601325% :food: in capital. Of course, it's not available right now, so it doesn't matter, but you might want to fix this when you do get around to releasing the full timeline. :p
     
  13. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Why are roads so expensive (in worker turns)? It's even worse than in RFCCW (I think). Also, why do cottages and cottage improvements have -2 food? That effectively makes almost any tile it's on give 0 food, which is not really that much of a benefit compared to just building farms.
     
  14. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    oops the cottages are a mistake. I just wanted to see if the AI would still build them. just put them back.

    figures there would be an error. oh well, I tried.

    I didn't think roads took that long. change it if you want.
     
  15. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Where can I find it? I assume that it's just a matter of changing a couple of values, right?

    Edit: Never mind, I found it. But I found that all the building all the improvements seem to take 1.5 times the amount of turns they should. Dividing all the turn times in CIV4BuildInfos by 1.5 seems to make it work- which points to some wrong value elsewhere.
     
  16. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    GameSpeedInfos.xml
     
  17. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Ah. But why did you make all the improvement building times so long? Especially roads, which you need to connect resources. 9 turns is quite a lot.

    Edit: Playing as Magadha, I seem to have screwed up the Nanda spawn. They spawned on Kausambi rather than Pataliputra, have a grand total of 4 units, and have not flipped any of my cities yet (it's been 5 turns since they spawned). However, they have most of the culture outside my cities, though the cities themselves, even in the flip zone, are still 100% Magadhan.
     
  18. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Is it intentional that the Jain and Buddhist shrines are unbuildable?

    Edit: The same flip problem also occured with the Mauryans (yes, I know that's past the timeline). Did you make it so that the human player's cities can't flip? That might be why the Nandas and Mauryans were screwed up.

    Also, the Achaemendids did not invade Mulasthan, in Lower Punjab. Same with the Macedonians.
     
  19. stolenrays

    stolenrays Chieftain

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  20. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Just spam spearmen in the early game, and axemen in the middle. If you can get elephants, they will crush just about anything.
     

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