1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

"A unit was disbanded!"

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by ridjack, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. ridjack

    ridjack King

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    684
    I haven't kept up with recent discussions, so maybe this is already known, but it seems like the disbanding mechanic has gotten a lot more aggressive. Twice now in one game I've had units getting disbanded literally on the turn I went into negative GPT, with not even a turn to try and get some gold to correct it.

    Literally no warning and no chance to fix it before losing a valuable, well-promoted unit. I assume this isn't intended, because it's way too harsh.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  2. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    477
    isn't hitting 0 treasury the threshold? i typically sell buildings to keep treasury healthy, though sometimes i forget and either reload or suffer what i agree is a pretty harsh penalty.. i've generally had it affect my least experienced units... is the disband unit selection purely RNG? should pick unit with least experience as a rule imo

    on rare occasions in past vp versions i've had this happen due to multiple spy thefts draining me to zero despite a good fund maintained in treasury.. this is annoying
     
  3. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,233
    Gender:
    Male
    Empty treasury and -5 or less GPT I think.
     
    JamesNinelives and vyyt like this.
  4. ridjack

    ridjack King

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    684
    Doesn't seem very sensible for it to immediately disband a unit, though. In the most recent case, I would've very easily had the gold on the same turn from some trade routes I was planning to pillage, but the game simply didn't give me the opportunity. As soon as I hit the threshold, a unit was gone.
     
  5. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    477
    i'm sure i've received some kind of warning about this in the past... maybe through advisors? or those generic notifications that we all ignore by mid-game? i can't recall exactly... it has taken me by surprise once or twice though too.. maybe could use a QoL UI update of some kind
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  6. dostillevi

    dostillevi Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    115
    As long as disbanding is the consequence of running out of gold, there must be a cutoff at some point, right? Hitting empty treasury with negative GPT shouldn't be a surprise and seems like a reasonable cutoff to me. Can't think what a better cutoff would be. There will always be "but in one more turn I'll have enough gold" arguments no matter the cutoff.

    i.e. the game gave you the opportunity to acquire the necessary gold on the previous turn and you didn't.
     
    XSamatan, Zuizgond and Skidizzle like this.
  7. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN King

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    654
    Gender:
    Male

    Spies can steal gold. So the game doesn't necessarily give you the hint. Usually, your science is supposed to be impacted too.
     
    DeAnno and JamesNinelives like this.
  8. dostillevi

    dostillevi Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    115
    That still sounds like a risk the player took. I don't think the AI can steal your full treasury in one turn (there must be some sort of ratio calculated), so hitting the disbanding requirements would mean running a very high -GPT relative to existing treasury. i.e. the warning signs are still there before the theft occurs.

    Room for improvement sure, and maybe disbanding isn't the ideal penalty.
     
  9. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,233
    Gender:
    Male
    I think maybe a one-turn window and disbanding the least experienced/strong units first would be good.
     
  10. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN King

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    654
    Gender:
    Male
    This is incorrect. I've had a treasury at 200ish gold and a gold deficit of -50 or so and lost all the gold in one turn to a spy. I had a corvette disbanded.
     
  11. wobuffet

    wobuffet Barbarian

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,247
    Something like lowest
    (5* :c5strength:Combat Strength*) + :c5war:XP
    ?

    (* Replace :c5strength:CS with :c5rangedstrength:RCS if ranged.)
     
  12. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,336
    Gender:
    Male
    That's what we call "not enough gold in the treasury". You should at least have 10 turns worth of gold in your treasury to consider "safe".
     
    dostillevi likes this.
  13. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,205
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    More like:
    (5* :c5strength:Combat Strength*) * (1 + :c5war:XP)
    because XP is more valuable on stronger units
     
  14. usadefcon1

    usadefcon1 Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    165
    The US government has being running a military with negative gpt for 20 years now... of course if the dollar was still backed by gold they would be unable to do that.

    Maybe hyperinflation can be added to VP? :mischief:
     
  15. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN King

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    654
    Gender:
    Male
    Even if I have sources of instant gold that I can access or expect to pop in the next few turns?

    Authority especially tends to depend on instant gold sources.
     
  16. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    1,577
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    Same. I'm certain that I've had warnings before (I read all or at least most of the notifications). Something like 1 or 2 turns before units get disbanded. It still affected my science but I had an opportunity to just work some merchant specialists until I'm in positive gp again for example.
     
  17. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    477
    Does the unit disbanding serve as some kind of garbage collection function for the AI?

    If not, can the disband be applied only when civ is unhappy? Maybe units can't heal if civ is happy while the Treasury issues develop

    Feels like this is a separate redundant 'supply' system
     
  18. ridjack

    ridjack King

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    684
    In my case wars were declared, ending trade routes all at once that took me from positive GPT to -53 immediately. I had just done some purchasing immediately beforehand.

    I don't see why a simple two or three turn grace period would be a difficult ask. GPT can fluctuate wildly from turn to turn; sure, you can load up your coffers and try to have a buffer, but then you're simply asking for it to be stolen by spies.

    Disbanding a unit is a big deal. There should never be the opportunity for it to happen by surprise.
     
  19. dostillevi

    dostillevi Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    115
    Agreed it is a big deal, but anything that let's the player run negative GPT while at zero treasury without penalty can certainly be abused on multiplayer. I'm guessing that unit disbandment was chosen over other options like penalties to production or preventing units from healing because it is a clean, clear, and un-gimmickable consequence. I could see scenarios where other types of penalties might be inconsequential in the short term, irrelevant for certain playstyles (imagine a tall empire with tons of units, negative GPT, and no focus on gold? They could pump out units fast enough to compensate for units not healing, for example), or otherwise frustrating in unexpected ways (you lose that wonder because production dropped by 50% and delayed it an extra turn).

    I wonder if a simple warning along the lines of "treasury is vulnerable" could be displayed in some non-obtrusive way when the calc for how much gold could be stolen in a turn + GPT would result in a zero treasury? Certainly the example above of losing 1/4 of the treasury per turn with only 200 gold saved is not an example of responsible fiscal management. The argument for instant gold that could be popped is that.. you should have popped it already. Civ turns represent many years, not just-in-time capitalism.
     
  20. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    7,257
    you could argue that “instant gold” is loans and other methods that keep you afloat even with a negative gpt.

    I think creating a method of disbanding the “weakest” military unit is a reasonable adjustment.

    personally I would go with XP as the primary arbiter (with hammer coat of the unit as a tiebreaker), this prevents things like your super scout from getting disbanded because it is cheaper than your regular units...but ultimately is still a unit I want to keep.

    if you want to get fancy you get make it a mod option, set to 1 its XP followed by hammer, on 0 it’s hammer followed by XP.

    I don’t think a complex formula is necessary
     
    vyyt and JamesNinelives like this.

Share This Page