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A useful project for a researcher

Discussion in 'Civ4 - World 2009 Mod' started by sheep21, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. sheep21

    sheep21 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    562
    Location:
    London
    Hello chaps:)

    got a little project for someone who doesnt feel comfortable with the technical side of the mod but still wants to contribute.:)
    Currently im working on getting the final units list for first release sorted but this means that I have fallen behind with units.:mischief:
    Would some brave soul take up the obligations towards researching the missing units from this list, they are an important part of modern warfighting and I just plain dont have the time at the moment.

    Armoured Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles

    - ACV-300 (Turkey)
    -- Operators
    --- 665 - Turkey (1,698 in total, only 665 inservice)
    --- 136 - United Arab Emirates
    --- 211 - Malaysia

    Notes - Currently in Production

    - AIFV (United States of America)
    -- Operators
    --- 25 - Bahrain
    --- 514 - Belgium - Being phased out so probably less
    --- 318 - Chile
    --- 1207 - Egypt
    --- 16 - Lebanon
    --- 211 - Malaysia
    --- 2000 - Netherlands
    --- 85 - Philippine
    --- 200 - South Korea under K-200 KAFV name
    --- 1698 - Turkey
    --- 133 - United Arab Emirates

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - AMX-10P (France)
    -- Operators
    --- 1050 - France
    --- 25 - Bosnia and Herzegovina
    --- 30 - Morocco
    --- 40 - Qatar
    --- 570 - Saudi Arabia
    --- 22 - Singapore

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - AMX-VCI (France)
    -- Operators
    --- 382 - Indonesia

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - ATF Dingo (Germany)
    -- Operators
    --- 35 - Austria
    --- 220 - Belgium
    --- 563 - Germany
    --- 34 - Czech Republic
    --- 48 Luxembourg

    Notes - currently in production

    - AVGP (Switzerland)
    -- Operators
    --- 496 - Canada

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - Al Talha (Pakistan)
    -- Operators
    --- 2000 - Pakistan - that is 2000 by 2010,
    --- 44 - Iraq

    Notes - Currently in production

    - BTR-3(Ukraine)
    -- Operators
    --- 6 - Azerbaijan
    --- 3 - Ecuador
    --- 336 - Iraq
    --- 2 - Kazakhstan
    --- 1000 - Burma
    --- 96 - Thailand
    --- 90 - United Arab Emirates
    --- unknown numbers(few) - Ukraine

    Notes - Currently in production

    - BTR-4 (Ukraine)
    -- Operators
    --- unknown number(few) - Ukraine

    Notes - Currently in production

    - BTR-94 (Ukraine)
    -- Operators
    --- 50 - Iraq
    --- unknown numbers, possibly similiar to Iraq - Jordan
    --- unknown numbers - Ukraine

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - Boxer (Germany\Netherlands)
    -- Operators
    --- 0 - Germany (600 ordered)
    --- 0 - Netherlands (400 ordered)

    Notes - Currently in production

    - Bravia Chaimite (Portugal)
    -- Operators
    --- 96 - Portugal
    --- 16 - Libya
    --- 32 - Peru
    --- 20 - Philippines

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - Buffalo (South Africa)
    -- Operators
    --- 200 - United States of America
    --- 5 - Canada - 14 more due for 2009
    --- 5 - France
    --- 0 - United Kingdom - 14 ordered for 2009

    Notes - Currently in production

    - Cobra BMT-2 APC (Iran)
    -- Operators
    --- unknown numbers - Iran

    Notes - buildable starting unit.

    - FV 101 Scorpion Light Tank (United Kingdom)
    -- Operators
    --- 36 - Botswana
    --- 16 - Brunei
    --- 29 - Chile
    --- unknown numbers (small) - Honduras
    --- 100 - Indonesia
    --- 80 - Iran
    --- 14 - Ireland
    --- unkown numbers (not insignificant) - Jordan
    --- 26 - Malaysia
    --- 140 - Nigeria
    --- 37 - Oman
    --- 42 - Philippines
    --- 154 - Thailand
    --- 78 - Venezuela

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - FV103 Spartan (United Kingdom)
    -- Operators
    --- unknown numbers (few) - Iraq
    --- unknown numbers (few) - Oman
    --- 6 - Botswana
    --- unknown, guestimate 300+ - United Kindgom

    -Non buildable starting unit

    - FV107 Scimitar Light Tank (United Kingdom)
    -- Operators
    --- 325 - United Kingdom

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - Condor (West Germany)
    -- Operators
    --- 8 - Kuwait
    --- 457 - Malaysia
    --- 12 - Portugal
    --- 19 - Thailand
    --- 64 - Uruguay

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - Dardo IFV (Italy)
    -- Operators
    --- 200 - Italy

    Notes - Non buildabale starting unit

    - Dzik - Poland
    -- Operators
    --- Uknown numbers - Poland

    Notes - Currently in production

    - EE-11 Urutu (Brazil)
    -- Operators
    --- unknown numbers - Bolivia
    --- 215 - Brazil
    --- 100 - Columbia
    --- 30 - Ecuador
    --- unknown numbers - Gabon
    --- unknown numbers - Guyana
    --- unknown numbers - Iraq
    --- unknown numbers - Iran
    --- unknown numbers - Libya
    --- 10 - Paraguay
    --- 20 - Saudi Arabia
    --- unknown numbers - Sriname
    --- 18 - Tunisia
    --- unknown numbers - United Arab Emirates
    --- 38 - Venezuela
    --- 7 - Zimbabwae

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - FUG (Peoples Republic of Hungary)
    -- Operators
    --- unknown numbers - Hungary - reserves

    Notes - Non buildable starting unit

    - International MaxxPro (United States of America\Israel)
    -- Operators
    --- 4471 - United States of America - 743 more ordered in 2008

    Notes - In production

    - KMW Grizzly (Germany)
    -- Operators
    --- unknown number (over 100) - Germany

    Notes - In production

    - LAV III (Canada)
    -- Operators
    --- 50 - Botswana
    --- 651 - Canada
    --- 105 - New Zealand
    --- 31 - Romania

    Notes - In production.

    - LOV-1 (Croatia)
    -- Operators
    --- 45 - Croatia

    Notes - non buildable starting unit

    - M1117 Armored Security Vehicle (United States of America)
    -- Operators
    --- 7 - Bulgaria
    --- 1118 - United States of America - 718 more on order in 2008
    --- 106 - Iraq

    Notes - Currently in production
     
  2. DVS

    DVS El Presidente

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    Yes this would be a big contribution, hopefully someone will pick it up. Thanks in advance to anyone who does!

    So basically, what you need someone to do is, compile a list of all the Armoured Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles currently in service, and how many each country has. Just finishing the list you have there, essentially.

    Perhaps you could help someone get started by pointing them to the sites you have been using to gather this information. I'm sure a potential researcher who is interested in the military side of things would like to work on this, but at the moment the project looks a little intimidating.
     
  3. sheep21

    sheep21 Prince

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    London
    Sure thing

    wiki is a useful list

    and the Gobal Security country listings cant hurth either :)
     
  4. DVS

    DVS El Presidente

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    Sweet, good stuff.

    So that wiki list is basically the list to be used, and then it's just a matter of listing which countries have what numbers of each unit.

    So who is going to be our deputy minister of defense and help out with this? lol
     
  5. MasterOfDomain

    MasterOfDomain Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    98
    I'm currently doing all Technology entries, so I'll try and help with some of this when I'm finished (in a few years.. ;)).
     
  6. Mattygerst

    Mattygerst Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
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    Location:
    St. Louis, Missouri, USA
    One question (before I start research):

    No one, as of yet, has been able to get the AI to use personnel carriers outside of the default transports in the game...

    have you worked on this/fixed it for it to be necessary to put into the game and use?...
     
  7. DVS

    DVS El Presidente

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    These (Armoured Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles) are not going to transport other units, they are going to be fighting units.

    Spoiler :


    But to answer your question, yes and no. Worked on yes, fixed no.

    I didn't think we'd be able to include new transport units (specifically our air transports), until I got an encouraging piece of advice today. I suspect this will work, I'll let you know.
     
  8. kuff-dam

    kuff-dam Illuminati

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    UK
    what are the available units designed withing the game under each teams tech tree to be able to distribute ?

    i.e usa in vanilla would have mech inf , stealth bombers , tactical nukes, tanks transports, sam inf, paratroopers, navy seal modern armour mobile sam , mobile artillery ICBM infantry jet fighter, destroyers ,anti tank, artillery attack sub, battleship , carrier, machine gun , missle cruiser, guided missles and submarine

    what special units do you have in mind for the mod?
     
  9. DVS

    DVS El Presidente

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    We may have one or two new units if I recall... ;-)

    Here is the list of military units we are including. We don't have it broken down on this forum by country. Edit: actually we do, you can go through this thread if you would like to see which country gets which unit. We don't have a clean list with just that info as of now.

    5 main civs will be able to build a wide variety of units (the arms dealers; US, NATO, EU, Russia, China.) For any other civ to build advanced military units, they will have to buy weapons licenses from one of those 5.

    In addition, every civ is going to start with a unique unit they can build, typically with no resources. The list of ideas for these units is here, thanks to new team member sandman730.

    Hope that answers your question!
     
  10. kuff-dam

    kuff-dam Illuminati

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    but basicly i'd have one unit representing 1000 men , therefore a tenth of a division , therefore USA would receive roughly 30 infantry units to represent the 2nd and 25th infantry divisions and the 10th mountain division with a dozen or so sam infantry and anti tank infantry to make them a unit

    *note the marines and airborne divisions would be paratroopers and marines , this is purely to explain the distribution of infantry
     
  11. DVS

    DVS El Presidente

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    Location:
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    The ratio(s) we end up with will depend on how many units we can include on the map without overloading it.
     
  12. sheep21

    sheep21 Prince

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    kuff dam, i like the ideas.

    Alas if we followed that think of the size of Chinease & North Korean armies, let alone India, turns would take a fortnight :p
     
  13. kuff-dam

    kuff-dam Illuminati

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    Location:
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    well in that case 2 units per division to make it both realistic and actually playable without a real life week long pause between each turn

    so , the states would get groundforce-wise

    6x mech inf units (representing 1st, 3rd, and 4th inf div)
    4x Modern armour units (1st Armoured, 1st cav div)
    4x inf divs (2nd , 25th div)
    2x paras for 101 airbourne div
    2 x helicoptors for 83nd airbourne
    6x marines for 2nd, 3rd, 4th marine corp
    2x navy seals for 1st marine corp

    that way there's loads more room for missles and nukes and planes and boats
     
  14. DVS

    DVS El Presidente

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    Hey bud, have you started/are you still planning to start this, or should we be looking for someone else to do it?

    Let me or sheep21 know if you need anything or have any questions.
     
  15. Uncle Anton

    Uncle Anton Lighthorseman

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    Location:
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    Guys, first of all, I'd like to put my hand up to help... please PM me if you'd like my assistance in researching the A-VEH's :)

    Secondly, I'd like to suggest a "one unit per Brigade Group" scale. So, to use a smaller NATO/Western Division for example, taking a unit like 1st Australian Division, you could represent it pretty accurately with one MBT (As it has an Armoured Brigade), one Mech Inf (As it has a Motorised Brigade), and one Infantry or Marine (As the other brigade is basically light infantry).

    Likewise as different examples, those larger US Divisions which are configured to have more brigade groups would have a proportionately higher level of firepower as they'd have more "Units" in them? The challenge here would be not sure how you'd incorporate augmented assets like Aviation (for US 101st Abn as an example), or even trickier - how would you represent units like the UK's 16th Air Assault Brigade? It's a rotary wing deployed unit for the most part - would you use a Paratrooper unit to represent it, or a Gunship? Or a Transport Helicopter with a Paratrooper or Infantry unit and have it represented thusly by two units?

    Some questions there.. anyway and in any case, happy to help out with the IFVs/APCs as necessary.

    One-Three-Foxtrot-One, Out. :)
     
  16. sheep21

    sheep21 Prince

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    Anton, sent you a PM
    welcome to the team!

    Regarding unit scaling your's seems to make sense the most, its one of the few things up for discussion still. 16th should probs be best represented by a Apache & Infantry unit of some sort (always found the paratrooper unit in civ fairly weak though...).
     
  17. KrugerPritz

    KrugerPritz King

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    I'm doing a new version of dardo ifv - japan type 89 ifv - amx10p... whta do you mean with "non buildable starting unit"?
     
  18. DVS

    DVS El Presidente

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    We would love to include your new version of the dardo ifv when it is ready!

    "non buildable starting unit" means that a vehicle is in service, but not in production. So for our 2009 scenario, some countries will start with the unit (the ones that have them in reality), but no one will be able to build more.

    There are a few more of your works that we would love to use in our mod as well. The T-90, type 74, the infantry packs. Thanks for making all these, great work.

    All the units we need art for are listed in our Unit art thread. The only units missing there are the IFVs, most of which are listed above. If you ever do any additional units from that list, we would love to include them as well. We have a great team of modders here, but we are currently short on artists!
     
  19. Uncle Anton

    Uncle Anton Lighthorseman

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    Thanks guys... I've started poking around to complete the list, I'll let Sheep know what I find... :)

    Bear in mind my net access is a bit scratchy for now... I'm at the "Outlaws'" place in Kuala Lumpur. Will be considerably more "constant" when I'm home. :)

    Oh, one more thing... for now I'm going to limit my researching efforts to IFV/APCs ONLY... so I'm excluding IMVs, IIMVs or any other Infantry vehicles, be they A-VEHs (Armoured - eg the Bushmaster IMV/PMV) or B-VEHs (Typically Unarmoured - Landrover IIMV, HMMWV). Please let me know if we need to expand to include IMVs, although we may be opening a tin of worms with that one ;) :)
     
  20. DVS

    DVS El Presidente

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    Great, thanks Uncle Anton.

    So, what's this Outlaws place?
     

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