Aabra01: Training for Mid-level Micromanagers

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment: If the settler build continues as is, it will drop the population back to size 1 when the settler is produced, and that means a long recovery time back to productive size with little gold being provided for research.

OTOH, if the build is changed to another warrior (produced next turn), growth AND settler production will occur at the same time in another 8 turns, leaving a productive population of 2. Meanwhile the new warrior can explore and help protect against barbs (who should be showing up any moment). Gold would be at a negative -1 (assuming research is left at 90&#37, but will recover when the 2nd town is planted.

I feel like I should already know the answer, but I don't. Which way works better and why?

Gmaharriet makes a good point here and one with which I wrestled. I hated the thought of Constantinople dropping to size one. Still hate it. Pop-1 towns take forever to grow and just aren't very productive. OTOH, we need more cities. This isn't called the growth phase for nothin'. I considered the switch to a warrior, which would be good for exploring, but, as Bede points out, we won't need a second MP. The first warrior can escort the settler and Constantinople will be fine w/o an MP while it's size one. On the other side of the equation, I didn't want Constantinople to grow to size 4. At size 3, no luxes hooked up, we have to run 10% to get 1 happy, 1 content, & 1 unhappy. I didn't want to have to increase to 20% if it was not absolutely necessary.

Nice start

We don't need that second warrior as the home MP can provide settler escort. But, a pop1 capitol is will decrease the research rate even more. I think we can afford the deficit for the 10 turns needed before the second town is planted.

So it sounds like a switch is in order.

solid turnset aabraxan.

one of the disadvantages of the 'explore by sea' route is that we have a fair amount of fog around our capitol and we have to decide where to position our next city.

No question. The second curragh was a gamble in terms of contacts, and we still need that fog busted. I haven't had a chance to assess your dotmap, but congrats on having made your first one. Even if we don't wind up using it, it's good experience and gives the team reference points for discussion.

 

[Aabraxan]

red dot - we get a cow advantage and maybe something else depending of whats in the fog. downside is that it will share two grassland tiles with the capitol. however. if the city expands early enough, we can switch usage of those tiles between the two cities.

I don't have a problem with sharing two tiles with the capitol. They're two tiles on the very edges of the fat cross, so there are plenty of other tiles that can be worked without too much crowding. And yeah, we can switch off the tiles between the cites as necessary. You're right about the fog. I sure do like cows, though.

pink dot - we get incense and sugar, but we'll have to do some irrigating (probably from the capitol southward) to get much growth.

I like the pink dot. Sugar is not the powerhouse that a cow can be but it's a good solid resource. IIRC, +1 food, +1 commerce. And that incense might let us drop the lux slider to 0% again. That'd be nice.

blue dot - might be marsh, i dunno.

I don't think it's marsh, but I do think it's right up against the jungle.

 

[Bucephalus]

I don't think it's marsh, but I do think it's right up against the jungle.

lurker's comment:

Think long term; underneath all that jungle/marsh is good quality grassland.

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment:

Think long term; underneath all that jungle/marsh is good quality grassland.

Just as important, there may be rubber in that jungle.

 

[mr_2_you]

Just as important, there may be rubber in that jungle.

assuming we make it that long!

 

[Aabraxan]

assuming we make it that long!

Come on Mr_2, let's have more confidence than that! It should read:

assuming they make it that long!

 

[Bede]

Plains cows with water are the most powerful field in the early game. How are we going to get water to those cows? That is the question to answer

 

[Aabraxan]

Plains cows with water are the most powerful field in the early game. How are we going to get water to those cows? That is the question to answer

By connecting the dots?

 

[gmaharriet]

lurker's comment: Could also save roading (for now) one of the grassland tiles by planting a town on the hill SW of the cow, which would act as a conduit for water running through the town. You'd also get the seafaring commerce bonus for founding on the coastal hill, defensive value of town being on a hill, and defending reinforcement from the capitol in 1 turn with movement via road to the town.

That would leave the other grassland tile free to be mined.

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment: Could also save roading (for now) one of the grassland tiles by planting a town on the hill SW of the cow, which would act as a conduit for water running through the town. You'd also get the seafaring commerce bonus for founding on the coastal hill, defensive value of town being on a hill, and defending reinforcement from the capitol in 1 turn with movement via road to the town.

That would leave the other grassland tile free to be mined.

I considered that, but could not remember if a town on a hill would act as a conduit or not. Thanks.

 

[Cyllus]

Never thought of using a town that way GMHarriet, not sure I would in this case as we don't know what's N of that hill but definately a start I'll try to remember.

I'd probably go with Aabrax' way. Irrigation only takes what 4 turns? Less than the turns needed to make a Settler at this point. Another thing I've never actually checked but always mean to. If we were to continue with the Settler build wouldn't we lose the extra food and be put down to a 1 town with zero food stored?

 

[Aabraxan]

Never thought of using a town that way GMHarriet, not sure I would in this case as we don't know what's N of that hill but definately a start I'll try to remember.

I'd probably go with Aabrax' way. Irrigation only takes what 4 turns? Less than the turns needed to make a Settler at this point. Another thing I've never actually checked but always mean to. If we were to continue with the Settler build wouldn't we lose the extra food and be put down to a 1 town with zero food stored?

Don't overlook worker turns that have to be invested in roading. Assuming that our worker goes "road-irrigate-road-irrigate-road-irrigate" (my plan), that's a total of 21 turns (3+4+3+4+3+4) before that cow is fully roaded and irrigated. Gma's plan, on the other hand, only requires 14 turns to achieve the same result: (3+4+3+4). Once the settler plunks down on the hill, the hill is considered roaded (right?) and acts as a conduit for the water. The settler should be finished 6 turns from now, unless the build is changed. In any event, as long as the settler can settle on the hill before 10 turns elapses (road-irrigate-road or 3+4+3), we don't lose any worker turns waiting for the settler to become a city/conduit. In other words, skip the middle step of my plan.

And all that in addition to the other beneficial effects that gma mentioned.

Caveat: Everybody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in any of the above analysis.

 

[Phaedo]

I don't have time to do a dot map or anything as I'm am getting ready to head for work but the hill as a city location by the cow is nice. If we settled 1 south of the cow it could be a monster producer with the hills and the whale.

More later

 

[Bede]

My comments on the dot map as presented are in the drawing.

The half BFC in red shows the biggest reason I am not a proponent of red dot.

AAbraxan's dot connecting irrigation makes yellow a viable spot though without knowing what is northwest of it I can't say whether it is a good spot. With what I know now orange is the strongest, especially since we can bring water to the cows through the streets of the town. And once the cows have water it is possible to replace the irrigation on the grass field.

The added gold from roading fields to the second town site will be lost to corruption. It is far more important to get the cows watered and worked. So my sequence would be irrigate-move-irrigate, then road the cows, then back to mine and then road the grass lands.

And switching to a warrior will not keep Byzantium at pop2. The mine will finish before the settler in any case. If you train a warrior then a settler the city will drop to pop1 but grow back to 2 on the very next turn. If you don't train a warrior the town will drop to pop1 and take longer to get back to pop2.

If you choose the closer site (orange), you shouldn't have to reduce the research rate, as you can reduce the entertainment rate to zero once the settler is trained.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

lurker's comment: Settling 1SE of the orange dot makes the whale available too, which makes up for the lack of nearby food on the long run, and it makes the irrigation task one tile shorter to the cow than from the red dot's. On the other hand, it will require you to clear a lot of forest for constantinople early on, since it will eat away a few food tiles...

Make sure you think outside the dot maps when you look at them and do not hesitate to propose new things - they might not be as good, and Phaedo's idea may not be, but it is good to discuss city placement.

Edit: sorry for that, didn't read properly

 

[Phaedo]

lurker's comment: Settling 1SE of the orange dot makes the whale available too, which makes up for the lack of nearby food on the long run, and it makes the irrigation task one tile shorter to the cow than from the red dot's. On the other hand, it will require you to clear a lot of forest for constantinople early on, since it will eat away a few food tiles...

That suggestion seems somehow familiar . It's a good point about the forests though. Of course, once we get pottery, we will want to chop those forests anyway won't we.

 

[mr_2_you]

what does BFC mean?

 

[Aabraxan]

what does BFC mean?

I assume he means "big fat cross." The "fat cross" is the shape of all of the squares in the city radius. I may be wrong, though.

 

[Bede]

I have a blind spot when it comes to whales - and some will tell you I am just plain blind when it comes to planning city placements - but 1S of the cow herd is an excellent spot. Three food and two shields from the cows and the whales gives us two hills to work. Good eye.

My blind spot about comes from watching too many games where players chase whales at the cost of culture in corrupt towns. In a first ring city corruption is not as much of an issue though.

And Aa's explication of BFC is spot on.

 

[choxorn]

Assuming that our worker goes "road-irrigate-road-irrigate-road-irrigate" (my plan), that's a total of 21 turns (3+4+3+4+3+4) before that cow is fully roaded and irrigated. Gma's plan, on the other hand, only requires 14 turns to achieve the same result: (3+4+3+4).

You're forgetting the fact that the worker uses a movement point when it moves to the new square. Really, your plan is 24, gma's is 16.