Aabra01: Training for Mid-level Micromanagers

[Aabraxan]

You're forgetting the fact that the worker uses a movement point when it moves to the new square. Really, your plan is 24, gma's is 16.

You're absolutely right. I totally overlooked movement turns.

 

[gmaharriet]

lurker's comment: I think Boern's suggestion of placing the new town on the grass tile S of the cow is a good one. I too missed spotting the whale, and that grass tile would give almost all the same advantages as the hill placement, with the single exception of the hilltop defensive bonus for the town. It would still allow irrigation to pass through the town and defensive reinforcement from the capitol in one turn as well as eliminating the need for another roaded and irrigated tile, and you'd still get the seafaring commerce bonus.

Perhaps, if you decide to train a warrior before the settler, the warrior could have a look at what's on the other side of the hill before a final decision is made on city placement. If there should happen to be a lux or another cow back there, it might affect your decision. Otherwise, the whale sounds great.

 

[Elephantium]

Got it. Looks like Aabraxan played 22 turns by mistake (2900 instead of 3000 BC).

My "shadow turns" had the following results.

Built Curragh and Warrior.
Settler due in 3 turns.
7 beakers, 1 happy face.
Writing due in 17 turns.
Met two civs (one almost by accident).
Road on 2nd BG due next turn.
Growth due in 20.


Specifics are beneath the spoiler tag.

Spoiler :

Turn 0 (4000 BC):

Settle in place, making Warrior.
Worker to BG, citizen on lake.
Science 100%, Writing in 40.

Turn 1 (3950 BC):

Begin roading the BG

Turn 2 (3900 BC):
Turn 3 (3850 BC):
Turn 4 (3800 BC):

Road completes. Begin mine.

Turn 5 (3750 BC):
Turn 6 (3700 BC):
Turn 7 (3650 BC):
Turn 8 (3600 BC):
Turn 9 (3550 BC):

lux slider to 20% per Bede's guidance.

Turn 10 (3500 BC):

Culture expansion and growth: Citizens working the two BGs now in our territory.
Citizen 1 goes back to his fishing boat. Citizen 2 delves into our mine.
Lux slider to 10%: we have one happy and one unhappy citizen.
Curragh in 1 turn, no shields wasted!

Hey, we have Incense to our south!

Turn 11 (3450 BC):

Curragh sails north; city starts building a Warrior (due in 3 with MMing).
Worker starts roading a forest tile.

Turn 12 (3400 BC):
Turn 13 (3350 BC):

Curragh spots two Inuit Barbarians to our north - about 9-10 turns' worth constant travel to get to our city. We also see another landmass to the east, across one tile of sea.
MM: Lux slider to 20%, citizen to 2nd BG to net 4 shields this turn.

Turn 14 (3300 BC):

Citizen back to lake, Settler in 10. Science to 100%, our Warrior is doing MP duty.

Turn 15 (3250 BC):

The island to the northeast looks like it's probably a very small island, so the curragh sails north again.

Turn 16 (3200 BC):
Turn 17 (3150 BC):

Road completes. Worker to second BG.

Turn 18 (3100 BC):

We meet the Aztecs. They're up Pottery, Warrior Code, and Ceremonial Burial. They also have two Workers for sale, but we have nothing with which we could trade.
Worker starts roading the 2nd BG.

Turn 19 (3050 BC):

We meet India (Curragh spots one of their warriors on the coast). They are also up Pottery, WC, and CB.
Lux to 20%, preparing for growth.

Turn 20 (3000 BC):

We get our 3rd citizen. We're working the two BGs and the lake by default. I move a citizen to the roaded forest, if we work the other BG next turn, we'll have the Settler done in 2 turns.

 

[Elephantium]

With respect to training a warrior before finishing the settler: Are we sure we want to do that? Growing from size 1 to size 2 takes 10 turns with the food we have. Growing from size 2 to size 3 also takes 10 turns - and it requires clowns/etc. to get there.

Granted, we can train more units faster at size 2/3, but that will only put us over our unit limit again.

We'll get more gold, too, I suppose. Still, the prospect of wasting nearly all the shields for Turn 23 hurts.

 

[Bede]

But training a warrior before the settler leaves more food in the bin when the when the settler completes and we grow from 1 to 2 in one turn. And having that second warrior means the MP can stay where he is so the lux impost actually goes to zero at size 2.

 

[choxorn]

Then India was the Purple civ?

 

[Elephantium]

But training a warrior before the settler leaves more food in the bin when the when the settler completes and we grow from 1 to 2 in one turn. And having that second warrior means the MP can stay where he is so the lux impost actually goes to zero at size 2.

You have a point. Still, I don't like the idea of wasting three shields.

In other news, I made a dotmap, too.

If it weren't for Red's whale, I'd vote for Yellow (cows, coast, hill, BFC).
Green is a solid place to put a city (incense, coast).
Either teal or blue would make a good city location (coast, makes a "belt" across the continent, so the other civs are semi-cut off from the southern peninsula).

Would a third curragh be worthwhile? That wouldn't waste shields, and the settler's completion would drop us to size 2 instead of size 1. OTOH, the extra luxes necessary might hurt.

 

[Aabraxan]

Got it. Looks like Aabraxan played 22 turns by mistake (2900 instead of 3000 BC).

You'd think that I'd have figured out how to count to 20 by the time I got to my age. . . Sorry, team. I'll take an 8-turn set next go-round to put things back on track.

 

[Phaedo]

I like the red dot myself. I'm not too worried about losing the hill defence. If that town comes under so much pressure that it needs the hill we will really be in trouble. Hard to argue with green (and do you see BOTH of those spices?). As for blue or teal, it's quite hard to say without seeing more.

The lack if vis causes me to support the warrior build as well. Although another dinghy build shouldn't be too far off IMO. Let's just make sure that we are roaded to the red spot by the time the settler comes along. I could be wrong but I think we will be down to 0gold when we actually found the city. We should also send the warrior out before the settler rather than n escort. It can protect it just as well running interference as it can moving with it.

@Boern I was just trying to be funny I hope it didn't come off as petty

 

[SimpleMonkey]

I have a blind spot when it comes to whales - and some will tell you I am just plain blind when it comes to planning city placements - but 1S of the cow herd is an excellent spot. Three food and two shields from the cows and the whales gives us two hills to work. Good eye.

My blind spot about comes from watching too many games where players chase whales at the cost of culture in corrupt towns. In a first ring city corruption is not as much of an issue though.

lurker's comment: Of course, that whale's out of reach until you get Literature. Unless Bede would like to build a temple for the culture expansion. Seriously though, 1S of the cow is ultimately where you want that city.

 

[Cyllus]

I've been holding back from responding because never go CxxC for the first ring of cities yet that seems to be the overwhelming consensus here, thus probably the right choice. What happens later when we have so much overlap? I gess that's whree the intese MMing comesinto play So my MMing skills are so far behind because I avoid them I guess lol. Seems plantin cities in the best places is far more important than avoiding too much overlap.

 

[Aabraxan]

I think red 1S of the cow is the first choice. After that, I think green so that we can grab the incense and the sugar. Naturally, that may change once a warrior has busted some of the fog.

@ Phaedo -- spices? Do you mean incense?

@ Cyllus -- I usually allow my capital CxxxC space, then switch to CxxC after that, so I've got some of the same problem.

 

[Phaedo]

Yes I did

 

[SimpleMonkey]

I've been holding back from responding because never go CxxC for the first ring of cities yet that seems to be the overwhelming consensus here, thus probably the right choice. What happens later when we have so much overlap? I gess that's whree the intese MMing comesinto play So my MMing skills are so far behind because I avoid them I guess lol. Seems plantin cities in the best places is far more important than avoiding too much overlap.

lurker's comment: The only problem I've encountered in going for CxxC placement is that your core may ultimately be hampered in getting up to 100spt in each city. In good terrain I can still manage it, but sometimes not until manufacturing plants make their appearance. I would think it more important to get every usable tile working ASAP. Having space to become a metropolis is not a concern for most of the game.

The AI almost always goes for CxxxC placement or even more spread out than that. Rule of thumb -- if the AI does it, it's usually better to do the opposite.

 

[mr_2_you]

Of course, that whale's out of reach until you get Literature. Unless Bede would like to build a temple for the culture expansion.

not to mention we'll need a harbor to take full advantage of the whale's +1/+1/+2 bonuses.

 

[choxorn]

Really, Simple Monkey? The AI doesn't commit suicide, so does that mean it's better to commit suicide?

 

[gmaharriet]

Really, Simple Monkey? The AI doesn't commit suicide, so does that mean it's better to commit suicide?

lurker's comment: Are you sure of that? Have you ever seen an AI 1CC declare on your own powerful civ? I'd call that suicide.

 

[choxorn]

I mean it doesn't disband units or buildings or abandon cities. Ever. This can end up being a bad thing for a 1CC AI on a low difficulty level, because their 1 city might have enough buildings to put them in a -gpt, and when they run out, all their units are disbanded. Leaving them undefended for a powerful civ to kill them.

 

[mr_2_you]

who is the turn manager again and whose turn is it?

 

[Aabraxan]

Choxorn is our turn manager. According to the roster he posted here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4967604&postcount=87

Elepantium is up and you are on deck.

What's the word, Elephantium?