Aabra01: Training for Mid-level Micromanagers

[Bede]

I won't have an opportunity to look at the save in detail until after 6:00PM EST (-5 GMT).

My read of the consensus is 1S of the cow for city 2. Once the town goes down you can build lots more warriors, however I wouldn't other than for MP duty (2 per town for max benefit in despotism).

using the capitol MP for exploration concerns me a little. keeping him in the capitol at size 1-3 means no lux tax needed and only 10% at size 3.

And I did suggest water move water the cows then road the cows. That will be the first field worked by the new town, so better to have the gold there early. Also the one gold from the road will go to corruption anyway, so there is no gain until there are two citizens working.

 

[mr_2_you]

We've got 2 (warriors) out exploring and I think they should keep busting fog, but I'm concerned about unit costs.

we are about to pop up another city, so the support issue will drop by the wayside... i was just wondering if something else might be more beneficial.

 

[Bucephalus]

but I'm concerned about unit costs.

lurker's comment:

Your second city will shortly take care of that problem.

 

[Aabraxan]

we are about to pop up another city, so the support issue will drop by the wayside... i was just wondering if something else might be more beneficial.

lurker's comment:

Your second city will shortly take care of that problem.

Once the town goes down you can build lots more warriors, . . .

I guess it'd help if I'd quit thinking that we're already a republic, huh? I keep thinking in those terms, not despotism terms. I spend so much of my time in republic in my other games, that's just what naturally comes to mind.

 

[choxorn]

Wow, 164 (165 counting this one) posts and the game is only at 2550 BC!!! This is a lot of discussion.
@Elephant: I notice the Purple civ appears not to have been met. I wonder who it is (Iroqouis, Vikings, Portugese are possible). If France is in this game, they will have a different color than pink (since Inca has Pink).

Oh, and Roster:

Elephantium: Just Played (Have a nice trip, BTW!)
Mr_2_You: UP, Got it, will play tonight
Phaedo: On deck
D'artagnan
Cyllus
Aabraxan: Our leader

 

[mr_2_you]

My read of the consensus is 1S of the cow for city 2. Once the town goes down you can build lots more warriors, however I wouldn't other than for MP duty (2 per town for max benefit in despotism).

acknowledged.

 

[Phaedo]

Looking at the save this is what I come up with:

1. Constantinople has 1 CONTENT citizen so will riot next turn if you don't up the lux slider
2. Move the warrior back. In 2 turns we can have him back home and move the lux slider back to 0
3. We need 1 food for growth and are now producing 2. Switch to the forest before hitting return to get the extra shields. However, I'm not sure what the next build should be. If we go for a warrior, the extra shields are well worth it. Another worker would do us a world of good although it would hurt our growth. The Aztecs are CLOSE and we don't have great growth potential. This is an important build so make sure you discuss it before barreling ahead. If you are impatient to play, do what I did in Cbob's AW game and play Tusker's set again yourself to get a feel of the game and see what you can do (BTW, great nick Bede, Elephantium is such a pain to type and "Tusker" is much cooler that Dumbo )

The square S of the cow is our best bet at the moment IMO. The thing is, both of our city locations need improvement. If we ignore the improvements we will be hamstrung. I really don't have the experience to make a definate call, but my gut says "build a worker." The only military units we can build are warriors (useless other than MP duty and busting fog) and we don't have the food capacity to build an effective force even if we had the techs. After a good round of trading, we might be able to be in a position to be threatening but only if we have the production capacity and that will take some land improvement.

I think your question about the Rep slingshot is a good one Mr_2. The other civs we have met already have the 1st tier techs so at least one is already researching writing. We will get it first though. Our shot at the Rep sling is gone but we can probably still get Phil first and should. I suggest that when we get writing, trade with whomever will give us masonry first and hopefully we can get at least one other 1st tier tech for it too (the AIs that gives us the best offers ought to be researching IW for the record). In order of importance, I would put masonary (b/c it's expensive), WC, wheel and then pottery. With some jumping between civs you coulds get all of them if you are lucky (India is down the wheel at the moment. That won't last, but you should probably trade with them last regardless as they will be furthest behind). When we get Phil, I say we go for math. That will give us the units we need for a proper army even if we don't have iron (even if we do, we won't know about it for a long time). If we have cats and archers we will be in a position to take on our neighbours. As we are outclassed in the tech race, some early pointy stick research will do us wonders. As a last thought, try all the possible trades you can think of (i.e. tech + various amounts of gold etc.) with ALL civs before posting. Regardless, pause and post at turn 8. If you have all the possible trade options, not only will you help the team decesion immesurably, you will have learned a lot about the trading process

 

[Phaedo]

Also:

@ choxon you are far more organized than I am. Want to organize my curriculum for me

We should look to getting a city on that hill that the northern warrior is on. It would be a nice defence against the enevidable pressure from the Aztecs

 

[Bede]

The only real comment I have relates to exploration patterns.

When looking at the mini map it is apparent that there is a big land mass north of us and it is likely the two curraghs will meet in the north soon. I would have headed the most westerly one across the strait to the tip of land that is sticking up on that corner, rather than continuing around to the north.

I don't know when the border appeared but even if there had not been a border showing there when the curragh passed it would have been a better move to cross the strait and check out the land mass. Anytime you can get to another land mass you should seize the opportunity. It may only have been an island but it might have led to an even bigger continent to the west.

Moving out the MP was a high risk move. Anytime you have to reduce the research slider when you can keep the spending up by parking an MP in town you should do so.

Regarding Phaedo's comments I would train at least one more warrior for MP duty in the new city, and then one more before starting a second worker.

As for his trading priorities I am afraid he has them backward. I would make sure of gold first, then pottery, then whatever else may be going. Masonry is not all that big a deal, and warrior code is more useful anyway.

As for the Philosophy tech, it won't come up in your ten, but I certainly wouldn't go for mathematics. Map Making is more expensive and far more useful to us.

 

[Phaedo]

As for his trading priorities I am afraid he has them backward. I would make sure of gold first, then pottery, then whatever else may be going. Masonry is not all that big a deal, and warrior code is more useful anyway.

As for the Philosophy tech, it won't come up in your ten, but I certainly wouldn't go for mathematics. Map Making is more expensive and far more useful to us.

I'm easy whichever way we go, but don't blame me when the Aztecs come demanding at our doorstep and we have to wait to the MA to deal with them

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment:

"Lurker Hotel? I'll take the Penthouse suite please."

Good luck, Guys.

lurker's comment: Oh, pfft. Just because you're Alexander the Great's steed doesent merit you the penthouse suite.

Good luck all. Thanks to Bede (and Bucephalus) I can now comfortably play Emperor.

 

[mr_2_you]

PARTIAL TURNSET

preflight -

i move the worker off the lake to the forests as someone (phaedo?) mentioned. our warrior is now due in 4

turns, population => 2 next turn.

2510bc - turn1
constantinople grows to 2, we have one content and one unhappy. looks like i have to mess with the lux slider

since our MP is out of town. at 10% we have one happy, one unhappy. i have to drop the science slider further

because we're running -2gpt and only have 1 gold in the bank. we now get writing in 7 turns, running -1gpt.

i start our warriordood back to constantinople. we need him there and can live with a single wandering warrior

for now.

our worker finishes roading, i start it irrigating.
our settler moves into place, we'll have a new city next turn.

writing in 8, -1gpt, 1g in treas

IBT - a volcano erupts waaaaay far away.


2470bc - turn2

found city of adrianople, citizen works cow for 2f2s, starts building warrior
our warriordood makes it back to constantinople, i fortify him. set lux back to 0% (2 contents)and science to

100%, we get writing in 4 turns now.


writing in 4, 0gpt, 0g in treas

IBT- nada


2430bc - turn3
constantinople finishes warrior, builds settler. we grow to size 3 in 8 turns and the settler will be finished

in 10 or fewer turns.

i turn our northern curragh around, it is now heading east.

writing in 3, 0gpt, 0g in treas

IBT - nada


2390bc - turn4

warrior and curraghs move.
no other changes

writing in 2, 0gpt, 0g in treas


IBT - aztec archerdood moves southward. exploring.

2350bc - turn 5
our worker finishes irrigating, move to cow to irrigate
warrior and curraghs move.

i can take science to 80% and still get writing next turn sooooo...

writing in 1, 1gpt, og in treas

IBT - we get writing


2310bc - turn6
since we can write, do we want to build embassies? NO, we have 1 gp.
adrianople finishes warrior, builds warrior. i know we need a worker, but the city won't grow before the worker

is ready.

tech trade time----!
monty will give pottery, wheel, ceremonial burial, warrior code and 5gp (he won't give up masonry too)
incadood will give same techs as monty plus 20gp (he won't give up masonry either)
gandhi will give us wc, cb, pottery, and masonry for writing.

i could trade with incadood, trade writing to monty for 60 gp and masonry and india gets left in the cold.


and here is the save so you can evaluate the deals for yourselveshttp://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106064/Aabra01_2310BC_mr2.SAV


so let me know you think and i'll finish my turnset.

a quick look for you:

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Wouldn't it have been better to build Adrianople one tile NW?

 

[Phaedo]

Where it is will get the whale.

 

[Cyllus]

First thing I did when looking at the save was his enter just to quickly check how many turns it would take our curraghs to get down to that purple border (14 turns... that's long) then reloaded to look at the trade ops.

The Warrior fortified in Adrianople can be moved out to break some fog to get better idea for our 3rd settlement, as could 1 of the Warriors in Constantanople, we don't need the MP presence for happiness atm. We need more info on our immediate surroundings, and definately need to contact that purple civ.

If Constantanople works the 2BGs the settler will be done in 5 and the city will grow in 5.

As for the trade ops.
Since Monty has more gold, get his 60 gold and whatever else he'll give up, CB, Wheel, Pottery, 60g.
Then get Inca's 48g and what he'll give up. If he won't give you everything then leave him Masonry, he'll surely give WC and 48g I would think.
Then go to Ghandi and get Masonry, we'll still be up the wheel on Ghandi... I'd actually offer the wheel and cash for Masonry and hold on to Writing.
We don't need 108g sitting in the bank for Inca or Aztec to demand. (Ghandi never scares me, if he'd ever demand writing I'd tell him to hit the road. w/out writing he wouldn't have anything to get inca and aztec into a dogpile).

We'll more than likely get Philo first if those 3 don't have IW yet (they always research that asap after the first tier).

Yes I have more lol. Both curraghs take 14 turns to get to purple civ. I'd actally take the Western Curragh down there as I doubt there's a hidden civ in those mountains. This would leave the Eastern Curragh to look at those 2 land masses to the east of Constantanople.

Can you dig that? I know I can!

 

[choxorn]

(BTW, great nick Bede, Elephantium is such a pain to type and "Tusker" is much cooler that Dumbo )

"Ivory" might be a god name too... also, D'arty is a nice nickname for D'artagnan.

@ choxon you are far more organized than I am. Want to organize my curriculum for me

Don't make me laugh! Darn it, you made me!

writing in 8, -1gpt, 1g in treas

writing in 4, 0gpt, 0g in treas

writing in 3, 0gpt, 0g in treas

writing in 2, 0gpt, 0g in treas

writing in 1, 1gpt, og in treas

This isn't nesscecary- only note when you change slider or something happens to turns.

2310bc - turn6
since we can write, do we want to build embassies? NO, we have 1 gp.

Yes, you might want to do something about that... Or...

Our Treasury is running Dangerously low!
Later...
Our Deficit has forced us to disband Warrior (I forget this message, I've only seen it once )!

Later...

The Aztecs have declared war on us!

Later...

Sir, the Aztecs have captured Constantinople! They will pay dearly for this atrocity!

You have lost! You have suffered a humiliating conquest defeat. Time Spent:

Okay, that probably won't happen, but be careful!

tech trade time----!
monty will give pottery, wheel, ceremonial burial, warrior code and 5gp (he won't give up masonry too)
incadood will give same techs as monty plus 20gp (he won't give up masonry either)
gandhi will give us wc, cb, pottery, and masonry for writing.

i could trade with incadood, trade writing to monty for 60 gp and masonry and india gets left in the cold.

Good Idea IMO. But Cyllus has a good point too...

 

[Aabraxan]

I'm pretty sure you can bring us to tech parity with one round of clever trading. I looked at the save and here's what I came up with:

Aztecs:
Wheel, WC, Masonry & 32 gold for writing

Incas:
Wheel, WC, Pottery, CB & 20 gold for writing. (But we're "getting close to a deal" on Wheel, WC, & Masonry for writing).

India:
Pottery, Masonry, CB & WC for Writing. (Edited to correct the mistake that Chox caught.)

So, here's how I'd handle it. Go to Incas first. You can get everything but Masonry from them +20 gold. Then go to Aztecs. Trade Writing to them for Masonry + as much gold as you can get. (Since you've traded it to the Incas at that point, two things happen: (1) Writing is devalued; and (2) they have fewer techs with which to bargain. I think the net result will be that you can get more of their gold than the 32 listed above.) You'll already have all of their other techs, so I think you may be able to clean them out. India won't have anything left to offer you at that time, but I'd be prepared to trade them Writing for a pittance in a turn or two just so that we get the trade before another AI sells it to them.

And if you do wind up with a bunch of gold in the bank, I say build us an embassy. Dealer's choice as to civ.

@ansar -- And Adrianople's current location also gets us water to the cow faster. I haven't playtested the "conduit on the hill" theory, but there's some debate as to whether it works.

 

[choxorn]

India:
Pottery, Masonry, CB & WC for Masonry.

Masonry for Masonry? I didn't know you could trade a tech that both civs already had.

 

[mr_2_you]

any advice on the builds?

 

[Aabraxan]

Well, there aren't a lot of choices right now. It's pretty much warriors, workers, settlers and rafts. Obviously, that will change once trades are made. Looking at Bede's post, make sure MP duty is covered, then maybe a second worker?