abbamouse Realistic Religions mod including Zoroastrianism

I dunno, maybe people like me complained so they decided to make him as a prophet, which is not as significant as a leader, especially after the "kingdom of heaven" was made :D. I removed his name from the prophets' list in my mod

I'm trying to make it impossible to switch religions before 200 turns instead of 5, anyone knows where that line is?
 
Fachy said:
No there's no prophet named Mohammad in the game either.
There's a "Mohammed Shah", twentieth Great Prophet listed in civ4gametextinfos_greatpeople.xml. Right after Abu Bakr. Surely that's not some other Mohammed?

Anyway, it would be rather unfortunate if almost all major Jewish names had to be removed from the Great Prophet list (a few could presumably stay, like Rabbi Akiva and whatnot). I mean, no offense to your religious convictions, but I would kind of prefer to see my religion adequately represented in the list, not deprived of having any significant figures from before a few centuries CE or whatever.
 
The name Mohammad is probably the most dominant name in the Arab world, maybe even in the Moslem world. My name is Ahmad, which is another name for the prophet Mohammad (comes from the same verbal root)

I don't know who Mohammad Shah is, but Shah means king. So perhaps he was a Persian Moslem leader or something

I found the name "Moses" in the prophet list and removed it of course, for respect to prophet Moosa (Arabic name for Moses). I even changed the name of "great prophet" to "great religious guy" all together! To avoid "playing" with "prophets" and depicting them in a game

omg you're a jew??
 
MrUnderhill said:
@Kaenash:

And before you ask, personally I believe that evolution is an intelligent design. :lol:

So a deist, basically. Hey, that's an interesting idea for, if not an actual religion, some sort of proto-religious tech or what have you.

I also wish Shinto were incorporated into the game, but (until the Meiji and Showa periods, where things get state-sponsored and distorted) it's not really a very codified faith, nor a very centralized one. I would, however, like my Japanese civ to be able to have some of the classic shrine architecture and so forth, just for accuracy's sake.

Maybe the Shinto cathedral would be Yasukuni, +1 unhappiness in countries declared war on around 40 turns ago? :crazyeye:

Edit: After reading the posts above mine, I think in general there needs to be more random silliness and idiosyncracies in various religions. It would, of course, be realistic if religious leaders seriously manufacture issues out of controlling polygonal, rudimentary versions of holy guys in a ludicrously oversimplified fictional version of human history. :rolleyes:
 
I didn't read through the whole thread, but I have an idea for a disadvantage for zoroastrianism: -1 health in cities (or you could make the rate increase with the population) because dead bodies don't get buried, but are left to be eaten by vultures.
You can then add some extra positive effects too.

And by the way, I think that you shouldn't disable the imam just because of the higher spread rate of Islam, since it gets founded much later than the other religions and thus needs a boost to get as many followers as the other religions.
 
Right now my biggest priority is fixing the graphic bug. The cause of the bug is clear: I can't seem to correctly cut and paste the Zoroastrianism symbols from the font tga files in the Greek World mod onto the Confucianism symbols in the regular font tga files. I'm using the GIMP, but I'm doing something wrong because the borders around the symbols aren't propoerly preserved when I do the cut and paste. Does anyone have a guide up for editing the tga files?
 
Fachy said:
I found the name "Moses" in the prophet list and removed it of course, for respect to prophet Moosa (Arabic name for Moses). I even changed the name of "great prophet" to "great religious guy" all together! To avoid "playing" with "prophets" and depicting them in a game
That's a mature and commendable response to something you find offensive in the game. Someone expecting Firaxis to change the basic game for everyone wouldn't be - it's a game, not reality.
Fachy said:
omg you're a jew??

Hmmm. Care to expand on that please?
If someone said "omg you're a muslim?" what would your response be?
 
Maybe I'm out of turn, but it seems like this mod is running counter to the philosophy of the game slightly in that it is restricting the religious movements in-game to historical implimentations rather than allowing the "what if something else happened" scenarios. One of the specific quotes from the manual was "what if Judaism developed a missionary tradition?" There's nothing inherint in Judaism per-se that restricted that from happening. It's just the way things worked out.

Maybe another approach to take would be to treat religions as having a primary and secondary characteristic ala the civilizations leaders that adds a positive influence on an aspect of the religion? Christianity might have traits like "evangelical" (more, cheaper missionaries) and "organized", Islam "evangelical" and "ummah" (double foreign leader pleasure for same state religion, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah), Zoarastrian "philosophical" and "juristic" (decreased maintenance or similar)... etc. You are then not judging a religion as having negatives as much are you are recognizing that the core beliefs of some are given to express themselves in certain ways.

Adding "Atheism" as a religion that is created by the "humanism" advance might also make sense. Actually, it should probably be called "Secularism" or possibly "Positivism" since you shouldn't define something by what it's not. Religions are not necessarily anti-science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_science) but more than others it may have "scientific" (bonus research) and "material" (bonus commercial) as properties. Positivism's temples may be any social structure that highlights humanism. I'd look for a common municiple element of maoist china, communist russia, and their satelites to see what filled this role.

A world event which creates a schism in an established and spread religion would be an awesome addition as well. What if Budhism had split like Islam? Or what if Hinduism split twice like Christianity (Roman v Greek, Catholic v Protestant) resulting in drastic shifts in forgien policy and sparking continential wars and chaos as your income from the adherents was halved. It would be bad, of course. Possibly caused by warring with a nation of the same faith, or by having a civic despised by the religion. (Christianity: Serfdom?, Islam: Caste?, Hindu: Organized Relgion?)

I love the idea of giving religions a greater depth in the game. I think this mod is a step in the right direction, but maybe just a little more to the left. ;)

(Sorry if this came across as a lecture. I mean no offense to the obvious hard work and deep consideration displayed by the mod's creator)
 
Fachy said:
The name Mohammad is probably the most dominant name in the Arab world, maybe even in the Moslem world. My name is Ahmad, which is another name for the prophet Mohammad (comes from the same verbal root)
I thought the commonness came from Mohammad, rather than predating him. That is, I would have thought the many Mohammads of today are named after Mohammad the prophet, whose name would have been fairly unremarkable and uncommon in his name.
Fachy said:
I don't know who Mohammad Shah is, but Shah means king. So perhaps he was a Persian Moslem leader or something
Looking at the dates more closely, you seem to be right. The entries look to be orgainzed by date; "Mohammad Shah" is right after Thomas Aquinas (c. 1225–1274) and right before Tsongkhapa (1357–1419). That puts him around 1274–1357. Unfortunately, while Wikipedia lists several Mohammads who were kings of Persia then, it doesn't have articles for any of them. It just looks weird to me that they would include someone who's surely such a minor religious figure. Oh well.
Fachy said:
omg you're a jew??
Yup, Orthodox Jew, why?
 
Ostar: About the firaxis thing, I don't think the gameplay is much less fun if they removed the names of prophets considering it may offend some people. And hey, speaking of fun and offending, making all religions equal shows how freaked Firaxis is when it comes to "gameplay fun vs. offending people"

lol if Moslems have been slaughtering Jews in a certain country for over 50 years I wouldn't be surprised if a Jew went like "omg you're a Moslem??" :)

Simetrical: nothing... just... inquiring...
 
Judaism WAS a missionizing faith early in its history, before the spread of Christianity and Islam made it illegal for Jews to missionize. There is NO historical reason that the game should restrict Jewish missionizing.

btw, a few suggestions:

1) Remove the penalty on Hindus and cows. Cows are a huge source of food for Hindus, in the form of milk and dairy products.

2) Judaism and Islam are both legalistic religions. Perhaps allow Jewish Yeshivot and Islamic Madrassas (i.e. Monastaries) to double as Courthouses if Judaism/Isalm is the state religion. Both, however, also have more regulations than other faiths. For Judaism, perhaps have 1/7 of hammers become culture (Sabbath rest), and for Islam perhaps have 1/12 of food become culture (Ramadan fasting precluding working in the fields).

3) Islam spread by the sword. If Islam is a state religion, add a % likelihood that conquered cities immediately adopt Islam.

4) Give Christianity a much bigger peaceful (natural) spread rate than other religions, and make Christian missionaries cheaper to build.
 
Fachy said:
lol if Moslems have been slaughtering Jews in a certain country for over 50 years I wouldn't be surprised if a Jew went like "omg you're a Moslem??" :)

Oh, like 50 years of constant terrorism and warfare by Muslims towards Israel -- denying Israel's right to exist, rejecting every peace offer ever made, and sending constant suicide bombers to blow up buses and cafes? Please. You evidently are a bigot, and one so totally indoctrinated in anti-Israel hate that you believe Jews have been "slaughtering" Muslims for 50 years, and are shocked that you are having a conversation with a descendant of apes and piges.
 
Koheleth said:
Oh, like 50 years of constant terrorism and warfare by Muslims towards Israel -- denying Israel's right to exist, rejecting every peace offer ever made, and sending constant suicide bombers to blow up buses and cafes? Please. You evidently are a bigot, and one so totally indoctrinated in anti-Israel hate that you believe Jews have been "slaughtering" Muslims for 50 years, and are shocked that you are having a conversation with a descendant of apes and piges.

He actually said thad Muslims have been slaughtering Jews.

This is rapidly turning into a religious debate.
 
Koh: Cows give milk for everyone, but they don't give hindus meat. So the point was about meat. And could you tell me why aren't jews missionaring NOW, since there are no laws which bans them to do so? Judiasm is both a faith and a RACE, unlike Christianity and Islam

Right so I go into your (britishly colonized) country, make the britts promise me a homeland in return of my help to them in WWI, take lands from your country and kick you out of your house coz "Hitler burned 80 billion Moslems in WWII", how senseful!

Then when YOU defend yourself you're a terrorist!! No wonder, the modern definition of "terrorism" is "resistence" anyway... I guess Hitler was right to crush the french res...oops, terrorism when he invaded France! Those bad Frenches were bombing his poor soldiers *sniff*

And the Jews aren't the descendants of pigs and apes, rather the ones who obeyed God were NOT cursed, and the ones we see today are the descendants of good jews ^.^

And if you were trying to be sarcastic that my religion preaches nonsense, I suggest you take a good look at Genesis and Exodus, mr. rational
 
I was wondering when somehting like this would finally be done... adds more flavor to religons.
:)
 
What ads more flavor? Fighting?
 
Fachy said:
...the modern definition of "terrorism" is "resistence" anyway...
It most certainly isn't! The modern definition of "terrorism" is ... wait for it ... "terrorism". If you have been made to believe otherwise you have been badly manipulated and you really should think long and hard about the validity of anything else you have been 'taught' from the same source.


Anyway, back on topic, how about making all non state religions cause 1 unhappy each in cities that have them. This would of course be countered by the temples but would remove the ridiculous situation of cities with more religions being happier than the those with fewer.

As for Zoroastrianism then how about Temples causing -1 health pr default due to their open air burial rituals(as someone suggested earlier), but having access to Incense gives +1 health and +1 happiness?

Also, I am not sure the changes to the Grocer and Harbor is a step in the right direction.
 
Fachy said:
What ads more flavor? Fighting?
Yes but more specifically a simple differentiation.

Any difference I think makes it more interesting.


I am hoping that in the future we can sway the game into having religous wars. This is a critical part of human history and should be implimented in the game. Currently it looks a little difficult to impliment but it had potential. I think if we came up with some sort of propoganda skeme that put negative results on certain religons this may work. depends on how the AI reacts to it though....
 
CyberChrist said:
It most certainly isn't! The modern definition of "terrorism" is ... wait for it ... "terrorism". If you have been made to believe otherwise you have been badly manipulated and you really should think long and hard about the validity of anything else you have been 'taught' from the same source.

Okay so: Palestinian resistence are terrorists, Lebanese resistence are terrorists, Iraqi resistence are terrorists, Afghani resistence are terrorists, Chechnyan resistence are terrorists. WHILE american occupying forces are democracy lovers, israeli occupying forces are peace lovers, russian killing bastards are unity lovers... doesn't sound right to me anyway!!

The very reason I should "wait for it" is that ANY definition of terrorism would certainly make america and israel the biggest terrorizing countries in the world

Oh but wait a minute I almost forgot.. killing Moslems doesn't make you a terrorist, only killing Westerns and Jews make you a terrorist..hmm...


CyberChrist said:
Anyway, back on topic, how about making all non state religions cause 1 unhappy each in cities that have them. This would of course be countered by the temples but would remove the ridiculous situation of cities with more religions being happier than the those with fewer

And how exactly can we do that?
 
@Fachy:
I don't know why you insist on describing 'resistance' and 'terrorism' as being the same - they are not. I will try to spell out the differences
1) Resistance is fighting foreign forces that have occupied your country - in your own country - in an attempt to end the occupation
2) Terrorism can be any number of violent acts performed to force any larger group of peoples to meet with specific demands. Such acts include (but are not confined to); attacking foreign 'enemies' abroad(full scale war excluded), attacking non-occupying foreign people visiting or legally residing in your own country(tourists, diplomats, peacekeeping forces etc.), attacking your fellow countrymen(civil war excluded), willfully attacking innocent civilians of any nationality(a crime under all circumstances actually)

An 'attack' can be things like - shooting, bombing, kidnapping, taking hostage, hi-jacking, sabotaging etc. etc.


Now, regarding the way to make non-state religions cause unhappiness then in the "CIV4CivicInfos.xml" file you need to change the following in all the Government civics (yes, government):
<iNonStateReligionHappiness>-1</iNonStateReligionHappiness>

The reason you can't do it under the Religion civics is because there is a bug in the calculation of negative values if the <bStateReligion> is set to 1 ... in the same civic.

A small drawback(or maybe not) to this approach is that Religious Freedom civic will now - at best - give 1 less happiness than with a civic allowing a state religion, but that can be remedied by giving the largest cities automatic extra happiness like the Representation civic (or something).
 
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