About forts

[ViterboKnight]

I've seen that forts have greatly been improved in BTS.
However, I've a couple of points.

- The AI now builds a lot of forts in his land, to catch resources. I've done too, but it doesn't seem to work. Do forts allow to obtain resources, as (for example) a mine would do on an iron vein?

- This has been discussed for long time before BTS, and still goes. You can build forts at tactical locations, for example to hold a narrow passage between you and your enemy. However, the enemy can slip close to the fort avoiding to attack it and ignoring your defense; in this way, the fort loses its tactical role. I think that forts should, in some way, blocking enemy units near it, either with a Zone Of Control, or by striking a free shot to the unit, or in some other way.

- Forts over a mountain?? Ok, it is like the Neverending Question, everyone is asking for some use for the mountains!! But a fort over a mountain could also be the unique way to use a mountain, and could allow a deep sight into enemy land; just this, a fort with scouting purpose.

 

[Jabarto]

I've seen that forts have greatly been improved in BTS.
However, I've a couple of points.

- The AI now builds a lot of forts in his land, to catch resources. I've done too, but it doesn't seem to work. Do forts allow to obtain resources, as (for example) a mine would do on an iron vein?

Yes, but only if the resource is in your territory and (obviously) you have the technology to use it.

 

[cassembler]

However, the enemy can slip close to the fort avoiding to attack it and ignoring your defense; in this way, the fort loses its tactical role. I think that forts should, in some way, blocking enemy units near it, either with a Zone Of Control, or by striking a free shot to the unit, or in some other way.

- Forts over a mountain?? Ok, it is like the Neverending Question, everyone is asking for some use for the mountains!! But a fort over a mountain could also be the unique way to use a mountain, and could allow a deep sight into enemy land; just this, a fort with scouting purpose.

What about this:

A fort on flat lands has a ZOC of one square surrounding it.
A fort built on a hill has a ZOC of one square, and a half ZOC in 2 squares.
A fort built on a mountain is directional, having ZOC something as follows:

OOOOO
O1HHO
M21HH
O1HHO
OOOOO

Where O is no effect, M is mountain, 2 is double ZOC, 1 is ZOC, and H is half ZOC.

ZOC could be a Civ3 type, just some chance of damage depending on the units there.

 

[jeffreyac]

How about, instead of a fort on a mountain, we bring back the old radar tower, or the other improvement that allows a greater LOS (can't remember the name of the improvement right now - observation tower?? ) and allow these improvements to be build on mountains. Wouldn't be much (actually, worthless for mountains in the middle of your empire where you can see anyway) but it'd be something.

Of course, we'd have to modify the terrain in either case, to allow workers to move onto mountainous tiles to do the work... would this be a problem?

 

[mjs0]

I would like to see forts impact supply rather than having a zone of control.

Any units that pass through a tile adjacent to an occupied fort are out of supply for a number of turns during which they take a small amount of damage per turn and fight at a reduced efficiency.
This would reflect the ability of units in the fort to sally forth and disrupt supply lines and would force civs to think twice about simply walking past an occupied fort but without imposing artificial limits on movement.

 

[scorth]

I, personally, like the idea of a fort automatically attacking (shelling) adjacent ships/troops if they enter the surrounding land/sea space. This would mean that placing forts in/near chokepoints would have an active benefit. Perhaps the attack value could be dependent upon the units currently in the fort.

I do really appreciate being able to cross my continents via the canals formed by the forts! It's cut down on resupply and makes for some surprised enemy ships! (What the -- where the heck did those frigates come from? )

 

[Lurking Liu]

Or you could make two forts... A Maginot Line of two forts that your opponent can't cross (and, incidentally, can be used as a canal) and another fort about three spaces back to fill with Fighters/Bombers is a good early-warning system. Granted, with two forts you have to split up your defenses, but the purpose of the forts aren't to stonewall your opponent, just to be a speedbump so your main army can counter-attack.

I like two machine guns, an Infantry, and a few SAM Infantry if I've got them and/or Anti-Tank Infantry. Yes, it's light, but it's all you really need. Each one will take out a defender or two, and weaken another. Then your main army comes in and finishes the job.

 

[ShredZ]

I killed 41 units in one shot with a cavalry b/c the AI parked boats loaded with units in a fort.

Let that be a leason, if you stop in a fort with only boats, unload the troops to protect tham.

The AI thought it was safe parking them there, but after I took a city, the cultural border juggled around, and my cav was able to move in for the kill.

 

[smacksay71]

I killed 41 units in one shot with a cavalry b/c the AI parked boats loaded with units in a fort.

Let that be a leason, if you stop in a fort with only boats, unload the troops to protect tham.

The AI thought it was safe parking them there, but after I took a city, the cultural border juggled around, and my cav was able to move in for the kill.

And the name of that cavalryman was Sgt. Alvin York.

 

[prestermatt]

How about, instead of a fort on a mountain, we bring back the old radar tower, or the other improvement that allows a greater LOS (can't remember the name of the improvement right now - observation tower?? ) and allow these improvements to be build on mountains. Wouldn't be much (actually, worthless for mountains in the middle of your empire where you can see anyway) but it'd be something.

Of course, we'd have to modify the terrain in either case, to allow workers to move onto mountainous tiles to do the work... would this be a problem?

I don't really mind the inaccessible mountains, but I would love an improvement that extended visibility.

 

[xxyyzz]

How about, instead of a fort on a mountain, we bring back the old radar tower, or the other improvement that allows a greater LOS (can't remember the name of the improvement right now - observation tower?? ) and allow these improvements to be build on mountains. Wouldn't be much (actually, worthless for mountains in the middle of your empire where you can see anyway) but it'd be something.

Of course, we'd have to modify the terrain in either case, to allow workers to move onto mountainous tiles to do the work... would this be a problem?

With the espionage system, we don't need the outposts.

I second (third, fourth...) the ZoC request for forts. I really miss that. Also I thought the age specific graphics were better with Civ 3 for forts. I think all they do now is change color every era...

 

[ERLoft]

Well, before BtS, there was the RealFort mod. Not sure if it's updated for BtS yet, but it did offer ZoC for forts, along with various bonuses for the defenders that were linked to tech advances. I really liked this mod component personally, as it made forts worthwhile...

 

[PibbZ]

I think it should have been either 1square zoc or just re-introduce the system from Civ3 where ranged and siege units had a chance to auto bombard units that passed by them.

I've had a game with a mountin wall and 3 squares of hills into my land once.
I built a fort on both sides of the passage, and had a 1 square passage through them. The silly part is that when the AI declared war, he just ran through the passage with a fort on both sides, ignoring them completely. In order to actually "defend" myself with my defense, i had to attack, and with Guerilla + Woodsman promoted defenders, that dont work pretty well.

Lately i've been building a lot of cavalry units and stationed them further behind the border, to knock out enemies that tries to bypass the forts, but again, when a mixed stack can move uninterrupted past forts and into my countryside, it doesnt help much either.

The need for a full blockade of forts and units to prevent the AI from entering my land without combat sounds redicolous. At least, the artillery units should be able to field bombard when stationed in forts. That could also solve the problem.

 

[cassembler]

Of course, we'd have to modify the terrain in either case, to allow workers to move onto mountainous tiles to do the work... would this be a problem?

I've _always_ supported the CTP approach where you have public works, and just point and click where and what you want to build. I say workers END with Civ4. In fact, this would especially be relevant with all of the options we have w/ Civ4. Probably a legal issue though...

EDIT: Off to see if anyone's working on a mod for this... Really complicated, though, especially w/ AI civs...

 

[mortichro]

i prefer placing my forts near borders of my enemies or in valleys.. on thing good about bts's forts is that you can fortify guided missiles and even planes. So in an event of a neighbouring war.. i can just activate them and give some headstart damage before they can even attack.

 

[Mureke]

Can spies pillage forts? That would be an interesting feature to ruin my day by taking out all those tactical nukes and airplanes stationed in the tile.

 

[Lord_Zath]

wait so let me get this straight.

- Forts can hook up resources to your empire? (obviously, the resource-specific improvement is better if within the city's fat cross)

- Forts on isthmus tiles will allow ships to pass through just like cities on isthmus tiles?

 

[LUEser]

wait so let me get this straight.

- Forts can hook up resources to your empire? (obviously, the resource-specific improvement is better if within the city's fat cross)

- Forts on isthmus tiles will allow ships to pass through just like cities on isthmus tiles?

yes and yes, plus you can build forts outside your empire now

 

[Lord_Zath]

yeah I played around in WB and found it to be true. However, I did find that forts do not allow your ships to pass through them if they are not in your cultural borders. same goes for resources.

 

[scorth]

yeah I played around in WB and found it to be true. However, I did find that forts do not allow your ships to pass through them if they are not in your cultural borders. same goes for resources.

Ya, that one took me a little while to figure out! I spent a bit of time building two forts into a canal only to find out that my ships couldn't enter them...