About possible DLC monetization plans

[Kalus]

Hello, I am new here, so please forgive me if I'm being awkward or breaking any unspoken norm in this forum. But I really wanted to discuss the possible DLC monetization plan Firaxis could have up their sleeves with people who have a long history with Civ franchise and more knowledge about the games, the devs, etc. I played Civ 5 and 6, loved them, and was looking into buy Civ 7 until I saw the pricing. I know inflation and rising video game developing costs may have had something to do with the pricing, but it was still causing quite a stir among a lot of Civilization players I noticed from other forums and discussion boards. I also remembered that Civ 6 had lots of DLCs, so I was wondering just how many DLCs Firaxis would be planning to release with that high of a price tag.

Civ 7 webpage did not say how many DLCs there will be post-launch so I was looking everywhere else, including the Switch store. I was browsing the Switch UK store page for Civilization 7, and noticed that there will be 23 DLCs post-launch. (link below)

https://www.nintendo.com/en-gb/Game...eier-s-Civilization-VII-2637632.html#dlcItems

Tecumseh/Shawnee Pack
Crossroads of the World Collection Pack 1-7
Right to Rule Collection Pack 1-7
Leader Persona 1-4
Right to Rule Cosmetic Bonus
Crossroads of the World Cosmetic Bonus
Deluxe Cosmetic Pack
Founders Cosmetic Pack

Both the Right to Rule and Crossroads of the World collection are divided into seven separate DLCs, and there are also quite a few cosmetic DLC products too. Each Leader persona will be its own standalone DLC product, and it's not going to be a single DLC that contains four leader personas. I'm not sure why both of the DLC collections are divided into seven DLCs, when the Civ 7 pre-order webpage says Right to Rule collection will consist of six DLCs.

I am also not sure why neither the Civ 7 official website nor the Steam store page are not being 100% transparent about the number of the DLC products they are apparently going to release. Does this kind of practice have a precedent or not? Did Civilization 6 also had more than 20 separate DLC contents right after the release, prior to the first expansion pack? What kind of implications does this apparently overwhelming amount of pre-expansion DLC contents have for Firaxis' monetization plan for Civ 7?

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I think Nintendo requires them to list out the individual components of each pack, hence the large number there. Aside from preorder bonuses and special edition perks, I believe there are only 2 DLC packs announced, Right to Rule and Crossroads of the World.

I think it's a pretty safe bet to assume that the monetisation strategy for VII will be very similar to the strategy for VI. If that crosses the line of what is acceptable to you then that's fair enough; for me, I enjoyed the way they managed VI and found the content to be largely high quality, so I don't really have an issue with them continuing in this way.

I'm not a big fan of preorder bonuses and special editions though.

 

[Kalus]

I think Nintendo requires them to list out the individual components of each pack, hence the large number there. Aside from preorder bonuses and special edition perks, I believe there are only 2 DLC packs announced, Right to Rule and Crossroads of the World.

I think it's a pretty safe bet to assume that the monetisation strategy for VII will be very similar to the strategy for VI. If that crosses the line of what is acceptable to you then that's fair enough; for me, I enjoyed the way they managed VI and found the content to be largely high quality, so I don't really have an issue with them continuing in this way.

I'm not a big fan of preorder bonuses and special editions though.

I don't recall Civ 6 selling cosmetics and skins, though. Fog of war tiles, badges, banners, borders, and unit appearances...

And the Civ 7 webpage specifically said the Right to Rule contains 6 DLCs, all of which will be available on or by September 2025, and since the contents of both Right to Rule and Crossroads of the World collections are also very similar - two leaders, four wonders, four civilizations - it will be very likely that the Crossroads of the World collection will also contain 6-7 separate DLCs, not serve as a single DLC product.

Also notice that each of DLCs are labelled "pack," like the Tecumseh/Shawnee pack, which is a standalone DLC. Four separate "packs" of leader personas, two separate "packs" for cosmetics, DLC collections divided into 7 packs...

 

[Pistol90]

I also hope for 3 expansions and larger number of small DLCs

Just STICK TO THE PLAN, let Civ remain what it is?

No zombies, no vampires, no aliens, no sci-fi .... you can start with base Civ 7 and add lot of stuff to it-but keep it in borders of what Civ game is ... and I will buy everything (already preordered)

 

[Siptah]

Civ 6 had 6 DLCs before the first expansion containing 8 civs. Civ 5 had few civ packs, but many map packs. Civ 7 seems to have the same amount of civs than 6. But they are packaged, and I'm not even sure the individual contents of the crossroads of the world and right to rule packs can be bought separately.

I assume you pay $20 per collection (2x20 = 40), whereas civ 6 charged $5 for an individual civ or $8 (?) when the pack included two (4x5 + 2x8 = 36). This would seem consistent to me for the civ/leader DLCs of the first season. However, maybe I'm too conservative (as the deluxe/founders editions wouldn't be great value with this price*) and the civ 7 packs are at $25 or even $30, actually.

The pre-order bonus is a different question. In civ 6, the Aztecs were free for all after some time. I'm not sure whether this will be the same with 7. It could be that this pack is sold instead for $5-$10.

The other things that come with the Founder's and Deluxe edition are harder to price and assess. The deluxe upgrade will remain available indefinitely, apparently. I assume the 2 leaders are priced at $10 and the cosmetic stuff is a "freeby" in their calculations. It's unclear whether the leaders from the founders edition will be sold separately at any point, but I also think the cosmetics are calculated as "freebies".

All in all, I think it's not too different from civ 7 in approach, but with some price increase (but to be fair, that increase was already there in Gathering Storm - an expansion sold for $40). I guess that if you buy every new content at release, you'll eventually pay $300+ for the game. And in any case, to get to 13 civs per era, you'll be paying $60 + $20 + $20 = $100 at minimum.

*difference between editions is $30 and $60. Calculate $10 for the 2 leaders and $20 for the DLC pack and you have that. But then the only good thing about this deal would be the cosmetic things. Hence, likely, the DLC packs are more than $20.

 

[Kalus]

I also hope for 3 expansions and larger number of small DLCs

Just STICK TO THE PLAN, let Civ remain what it is?

No zombies, no vampires, no aliens, no sci-fi .... you can start with base Civ 7 and add lot of stuff to it-but keep it in borders of what Civ game is ... and I will buy everything (already preordered)

It might sound a bit stupid but I loved the secret societies and zombies though? I loved role-playing as Vampire Lord Simon Bolivar and Cthulhu-worshipping Russian Czar. Maybe it's because I'm a sucker for dark fantasy and speculative fiction... And I personally think that Civ 7 itself has already diverged heavily from being "Civ remaining what it is" with this new civ change mechanic.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I don't recall Civ 6 selling cosmetics and skins, though. Fog of war tiles, badges, banners, borders, and unit appearances...

And the Civ 7 webpage specifically said the Right to Rule contains 6 DLCs, all of which will be available on or by September 2025, and since the contents of both Right to Rule and Crossroads of the World collections are also very similar - two leaders, four wonders, four civilizations - it will be very likely that the Crossroads of the World collection will also contain 6-7 separate DLCs, not serve as a single DLC product.

Also notice that each of DLCs are labelled "pack," like the Tecumseh/Shawnee pack, which is a standalone DLC. Four separate "packs" of leader personas, two separate "packs" for cosmetics, DLC collections divided into 7 packs...

I think you might be forgetting what VI was like, per @Siptah's post. I think it also had some cosmetic things, like the scout cat, though I can't quite remember myself how that worked.

Either way, the strategy will be similar, even if the volume of content and price is increased: you're not going to find any pay to win elements, you're not going to have any gambling/loot box style MTX, you're not going to have gameplay mechanics locked behind a paywall. The game will be complete at launch, they will then sell additional leaders, civs and personas + most likely some full expansion packs. Wouldn't be surprised to see a few more cosmetics than VI, though that remains to be seen.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Fairly sure they confirmed their plan to keep Civ 7 going for a LONG time, so I expect a lot of "Pass" DLCs.

 

[pokiehl]

It’s not been established that there’s any actual paid cosmetic-only DLC: all cosmetics so far are thrown in as extras for the DLC packages, which themselves aren’t really any different than what Civ 6 had.

But that aside, why would have cosmetic DLC bother you? They don’t affect the game and you don’t have to buy or use them.

 

[Kalus]

Civ 6 had 6 DLCs before the first expansion containing 8 civs. Civ 5 had few civ packs, but many map packs. Civ 7 seems to have the same amount of civs than 6. But they are packaged, and I'm not even sure the individual contents of the crossroads of the world and right to rule packs can be bought separately.

I assume you pay $20 per collection (2x20 = 40), whereas civ 6 charged $5 for an individual civ or $8 (?) when the pack included two (4x5 + 2x8 = 36). This would seem consistent to me for the civ/leader DLCs of the first season. However, maybe I'm too conservative (as the deluxe/founders editions wouldn't be great value with this price*) and the civ 7 packs are at $25 or even $30, actually.

The pre-order bonus is a different question. In civ 6, the Aztecs were free for all after some time. I'm not sure whether this will be the same with 7. It could be that this pack is sold instead for $5-$10.

The other things that come with the Founder's and Deluxe edition are harder to price and assess. The deluxe upgrade will remain available indefinitely, apparently. I assume the 2 leaders are priced at $10 and the cosmetic stuff is a "freeby" in their calculations. It's unclear whether the leaders from the founders edition will be sold separately at any point, but I also think the cosmetics are calculated as "freebies".

All in all, I think it's not too different from civ 7 in approach, but with some price increase (but to be fair, that increase was already there in Gathering Storm - an expansion sold for $40). I guess that if you buy every new content at release, you'll eventually pay $300+ for the game. And in any case, to get to 13 civs per era, you'll be paying $60 + $20 + $20 = $100 at minimum.

*difference between editions is $30 and $60. Calculate $10 for the 2 leaders and $20 for the DLC pack and you have that. But then the only good thing about this deal would be the cosmetic things. Hence, likely, the DLC packs are more than $20.

They said the Right to Rule DLCs will be available on or "by" September 2025, so I'm guessing they will release each of the six(?) DLCs every single months starting from March or April 2025. "Each DLC will be delivered automatically in-game on release." That's what they said, so it's likely that the collections would be 6-7 separate DLCs being sold as a bundle that can be purchased separately.

 

[Kalus]

I think you might be forgetting what VI was like, per @Siptah's post. I think it also had some cosmetic things, like the scout cat, though I can't quite remember myself how that worked.

Either way, the strategy will be similar, even if the volume of content and price is increased: you're not going to find any pay to win elements, you're not going to have any gambling/loot box style MTX, you're not going to have gameplay mechanics locked behind a paywall. The game will be complete at launch, they will then sell additional leaders, civs and personas + most likely some full expansion packs. Wouldn't be surprised to see a few more cosmetics than VI, though that remains to be seen.

The scout cat was free, though... And expansion packs are, by definition, gameplay mechanics locked behind a paywall. Especially for Civilization games that had new gameplay mechanics being unlocked for each expansion packs. I heard religion wasn't even in Civ 5 prior to Gods and Kings and Diplomatic Victory didn't exist in Civ 6 prior to Gathering Storm? Every Civ player I got to talk with before told me that Civilization games at launch aren't complete and you need to wait for expansion packs.

 

[Kalus]

It’s not been established that there’s any actual paid cosmetic-only DLC: all cosmetics so far are thrown in as extras for the DLC packages, which themselves aren’t really any different than what Civ 6 had.

But that aside, why would have cosmetic DLC bother you? They don’t affect the game and you don’t have to buy or use them.

I can understand cosmetics monetization for free-to-play games or live service multiplayer games, but I don't feel comfortable having them in singleplayer-heavy games... It just doesn't sit right with me. Remember the uproar with the notorious horse armor dlc for Oblivion? Can you imagine Elden Ring adding paid cosmetics? Europa Universalis IV has quite a lot of unit model DLCs and they get mixed reviews from players.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

And expansion packs are, by definition, gameplay mechanics locked behind a paywall. Especially for Civilization games that had new gameplay mechanics being unlocked for each expansion packs. I heard religion wasn't even in Civ 5 prior to Gods and Kings and Diplomatic Victory didn't exist in Civ 6 prior to Gathering Storm? Every Civ player I got to talk with before told me that Civilization games at launch aren't complete and you need to wait for expansion packs.

Right, but I think you're straying a bit from your initial question / concern. Civ VII will almost certainly have substantial expansion packs but this is not new, it goes back to at least Civ IV, and whilst they are technically "gameplay mechanics locked behind a paywall" it's an old tradition and quite different to newer MTX strategies. This isn't a reason to be concerned about Civ VII specifically, it's just what Civ does.

 

[Siptah]

The scout cat was free, though... And expansion packs are, by definition, gameplay mechanics locked behind a paywall. Especially for Civilization games that had new gameplay mechanics being unlocked for each expansion packs. I heard religion wasn't even in Civ 5 prior to Gods and Kings and Diplomatic Victory didn't exist in Civ 6 prior to Gathering Storm? Every Civ player I got to talk with before told me that Civilization games at launch aren't complete and you need to wait for expansion packs.

Civ 6 was perfectly playable (bugs and balance issues aside) at release. I would even say that it was better than with the expansions for me. Diplo victory for sure isn't necessary to enjoy it - it's a low point of the series imho.
Civ 5 is a bit different, but I also liked it on release, yet I wouldn't recommend anyone to get only the base game now that it's rather cheap to get all together.

If expansions are outright necessary to play the game, something is wrong. That's also why many EU4 DLCs have overlapping content (e.g., government reforms and estates come with different expansions) and now a bunch of them are included in the base game.

re: CotW and RtR sold separately. I vaguely remember that some page said the content is only available as package, but I can't find this info anymore, and there were some mistakes across the different strokes when the game was announced/first sold.

re: cosmetics: YMMV and for me, it depends on the game. I don't see any reason to have them in civ, because I don't have much aesthetic choices in the game and building pretty is only possible within tight limits. For a builder game like Anno 1800 or Planet Zoo, the value is great for me, and I use it all the time and enjoy looking at it. I also like the unit models in EU4, because they add a lot of diversity to the map, and newer models are much prettier than the ones from 10+ years ago. All of this is more value than alternative scout skins (especially if you can't have two different ones at the same time), profile banners or fog of war skins though.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I mean, when it comes to cosmetics, I think the only question you need to ask is whether the devs intentionally designed the "base" versions to be ugly or non-functional therefore "forcing" a cosmetics purchase.

Clearly that's not the case here. The devs have clearly put their hearts and soul into making the game look gorgeous. This, you can safely ignore any cosmetics. Problem solved.

For gameplay, the question is whether the DLC is "more of the same", "greater variety", or "new mechanics".

None of the DLC announced has new mechanics - it's all just greater variety for existing mechanics.

Base Civ7 has 30 civs, which - despite what some people might say - is a pretty large amount of variety right out of the gate. You have 10 entirely unique paths without ANY overlap between civs. That's actually pretty awesome for a game where a single playthrough can be 10+ hours.

Add in permutations of civ switching as well as permutations of leader/civ combinations and Civ7 has hundreds of hours of gameplay where each run through is a unique combination.

If you're worried about DLC practices, then ignore the DLC and decide whether the base game in isolation is worth it for you. If it is, great! Problem solved. If it's not, great! Wait for a few years and buy the complete package for $10 during one of Steam's sales. Problem solved!

 

[Isengardtom]

If expansions are outright necessary to play the game, something is wrong. That's also why many EU4 DLCs have overlapping content (e.g., government reforms and estates come with different expansions) and now a bunch of them are included in the base game.

I agree. I’d rather have fully fleshed out mechanics and expansions in the form of a new age for example.

No zombies, no vampires, no aliens, no sci-fi .... you can start with base Civ 7 and add lot of stuff to it-but keep it in borders of what Civ game is ... and I will buy everything (already preordered)

I tend to agree with this but I’d be ok if they add this more “silly” stuff in a sort of future age upgrade. But would prefer they keep it out of Antiquity / Exploration / Modern

Civ 6 was perfectly playable (bugs and balance issues aside) at release. I would even say that it was better than with the expansions for me. Diplo victory for sure isn't necessary to enjoy it - it's a low point of the series imho.

yeah diplo victory didn’t add much but I don’t fully agree on base game better than expansions. The Rise and fall addition of gold and dark ages and the era score mechanic added a lot to civ 6 for me.

 

[pokiehl]

I can understand cosmetics monetization for free-to-play games or live service multiplayer games, but I don't feel comfortable having them in singleplayer-heavy games... It just doesn't sit right with me. Remember the uproar with the notorious horse armor dlc for Oblivion? Can you imagine Elden Ring adding paid cosmetics? Europa Universalis IV has quite a lot of unit model DLCs and they get mixed reviews from players.

You’ve established you don’t like it, but you haven’t explained why.

I’m asking because at face value, it is weird to me to be disturbed by a bog standard dlc practice that doesn’t withhold actual gameplay content from you and which you don’t have to buy. It’s like any other dlc: don’t want it, don’t buy it. Those that do want it have the option.

I also don’t understand why a game not being exclusively MP means people shouldn’t enjoy cool cosmetics. If Civ 7 had dlc adding a visual season system or more map graphic variation, I’d like the option to support that.

 

[Kalus]

You’ve established you don’t like it, but you haven’t explained why.

I’m asking because at face value, it is weird to me to be disturbed by a bog standard dlc practice that doesn’t withhold actual gameplay content from you and which you don’t have to buy. It’s like any other dlc: don’t want it, don’t buy it. Those that do want it have the option.

I also don’t understand why a game not being exclusively MP means people shouldn’t enjoy cool cosmetics. If Civ 7 had dlc adding a visual season system or more map graphic variation, I’d like the option to support that.

Free-to-play games need paid cosmetics stay afloat, and live service multiplayer games need dedicated servers that cost astronomical amount of money to maintain, so in those cases paid cosmetics are the necessary reality.

Paid cosmetics in singleplayer games, especially in games that can have mods available to essentially get them for free, however, does not look like a healthy practice at all. In fact, I actually saw other games restricting cosmetic-related modding to remove competition for their paid cosmetic dlcs, so Firaxis suppressing modding scene in this aspect is not at all implausible scenario.

They could have made cosmetics something you can unlock by getting certain in-game achievements or playing multiple gameplay sessions. But no, they needed to figure out a way to suck out money from players in any way possible with that high of a price tag.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

They could have made cosmetics something you can unlock by getting certain in-game achievements or playing multiple gameplay sessions. But no, they needed to figure out a way to suck out money from players in any way possible with that high of a price tag.

Again, at this stage we've no indication that they will be selling cosmetics outside of those available as special edition perks, and the standard edition is £60 in the UK, which is pretty standard for a new release. I don't particularly like special editions myself but it's not an indication of any long term cosmetics strategy.

 

[Vandlys]

I also hope for 3 expansions and larger number of small DLCs

Just STICK TO THE PLAN, let Civ remain what it is?

No zombies, no vampires, no aliens, no sci-fi .... you can start with base Civ 7 and add lot of stuff to it-but keep it in borders of what Civ game is ... and I will buy everything (already preordered)

Your post contradicts itself.

Civ has had zombies, vampires, sci-fi, steampunk, Elvis, and probably more I don't know about or am forgetting.

So, letting Civ remain what it is would include zombies, vampires, aliens, sci-fi, steampunk, etc.