Accessibility is one of the best strengths of the civ franchise

[SupremacyKing2]

I recently tried to play Hearts of Iron IV for the first time. Maybe it's normal for a new player but I found it very hard to just jump into and play. I launched the tutorial and was rather confused. How do I build units/buildings in my provinces? It seems like there is 3-4 different steps you need to do just to put a new army unit on the map but it's not immediately obvious how to do it. I am sure I will learn if I take the time. But it occurred to me that this is a big reason for the success of the civ franchise. Civ is a game that has many game mechanics, it's not a simple game, but it is a game that is relatively intuitive and easy for new players to learn. The learning curve is pretty low. The UI is very straight forward and intuitive. Want to build something? Just click a city and select what you want! This accessibility makes civ an easy game for new players to jump into and thus I think, has really helped the franchise be as popular over the decades as it continues to be.

 

[Zaarin]

Well, I mean, you're comparing different genres, grand strategy vs. 4X. But yeah, I found CK2's learning curve too steep to enjoy, though I later found I enjoyed Stellaris. Haven't played it in ages, though.

 

[Depravo]

The high point of the HoI series has been #2 Darkest Hour, which also happens to be cheap and fairly easy to get into once you understand how they modded manpower.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Well, I mean, you're comparing different genres, grand strategy vs. 4X. But yeah, I found CK2's learning curve too steep to enjoy, though I later found I enjoyed Stellaris. Haven't played it in ages, though.

Well, I would argue that grand strategy does not necessarily require a steep learning curve.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Paradox games aren't complex either once you get past the initial learning curve, although I admit that can be intimidating.
I've usually found it worth doing so. CK is one of my favourite pc strategy games, as I'm a sucker for games that combine strategy and an element of roleplaying.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Paradox games aren't complex either once you get past the initial learning curve, although I admit that can be intimidating.
I've usually found it worth doing so. CK is one of my favourite pc strategy games, as I'm a sucker for games that combine strategy and an element of roleplaying.

Yeah, I really really want to love Paradox games because I love strategy and I think I would love "grand strategy". It's the steep learning curve that is scaring me. I purchased Stellaris too because I love the concept of a space grand strategy but the steep learning curve is making it hard for me to really get into it. I guess I need to just bite the bullet and just take the time to learn the games. I do feel like once I get past the learning curve, I probably would enjoy it.

I do love that civ games have an easy learning curve and since I've placed hundreds of hours of civ, it makes it easy for me to play them.

 

[Leathaface]

I tried to get into Crusader Kings II but found the learning curve steep too. I viewed Arumba's tutorial series on the game and was starting to get the hang of it, but I thought "Paradox games are games where you put thousands of hours into."

I just decided then that if there is a game where you put thousands of hours into each iteration, and a new game in that series is released every 5/6 years, then there is only room for one of those types of games to put that many hours into, so I stuck with Civ.

I also agree that Civ is very accessible, that is a big strength of the franchise. You don't have to watch a tutorial series to learn how to play Civ. You could watch a tutorial series to learn how to play good and climb up difficulties, but not as basic as how to play the game.

 

[Zaarin]

Well, I would argue that grand strategy does not necessarily require a steep learning curve.

Probably true--I haven't played any other than Paradox's--but I was just pointing out the comparison was a little unfair since they're not the same genre. Most 4X games are pretty accessible. The advantage Civ has over Endless Space has more to do with marketing budget than accessibility.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Well, I just spent a couple hours on Stellaris and I adore it!!! I guess once you get over the learning curve, the games are pretty great. I guess I should try Europa Unversalis next or HOI, Maybe I will finally "get it".

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Probably true--I haven't played any other than Paradox's--but I was just pointing out the comparison was a little unfair since they're not the same genre. Most 4X games are pretty accessible. The advantage Civ has over Endless Space has more to do with marketing budget than accessibility.

I was not talking about Endless Space (that's not Paradox, I don't think). I was thinking of the historical Paradox games like EU and HOI which would be more like civ in their premise.

 

[Vandlys]

I think people here underestimated the ingenious of the "turn button" in Civ. If you are a complete noob, it takes your hand completely, and shows you always what still needs to be done in order for you to progress. It's brilliant.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Well, I just spent a couple hours on Stellaris and I adore it!!! I guess once you get over the learning curve, the games are pretty great. I guess I should try Europa Unversalis next or HOI, Maybe I will finally "get it".

Glad to hear
I'd argue Crusader Kings. Its my favourite. Really whichever interests you the most. Theres a reason why I never mastered Victoria and have never even tried to play Hearts of Iron. They don't interest me enough for me to bother.

 

[qadams]

I think the OP makes a good observation.

The main point of playing a game is fun, right? But if the learning curve is too steep, the UI too opaque, or the game mechanics too obscure, that can take all the fun right out of it. I tried playing Europa Universalis, really tried, but it has never worked for me. On the other hand, Paradox does have one game I enjoy quite a lot, which is Cities Skylines. It was much easier to learn. But Civ hits the sweet spot perfectly.

 

[krokobone]

I think the OP makes a good observation.

The main point of playing a game is fun, right? But if the learning curve is too steep, the UI too opaque, or the game mechanics too obscure, that can take all the fun right out of it. I tried playing Europa Universalis, really tried, but it has never worked for me. On the other hand, Paradox does have one game I enjoy quite a lot, which is Cities Skylines. It was much easier to learn. But Civ hits the sweet spot perfectly.

I have the same experience with Europa Universalis, I can't enjoy that game no matter how hard I try. Stellaris and Hearts of Iron IV are, however, some of my favorite games, but I still prefer Civ 6 to them, because it's easier to kick back and relax with Civ.

 

[Breadsmith]

Stellaris 1 wasn't too bad to grasp, for a Paradox game. But this new Stellaris, it feels like there's 17 resources you need to make more resources to finally build things.

But Civ is a completely different thing. It's a game. Stellaris and CK tell a story, if you can find it behind all the numbers. But they're an entirely different beast.

 

[tedhebert]

I've played a lot of Galciv (2 and 3), a little of Stellaris and endless legend, and very little of endless space... also recently bought EU4 and couldn't for the life of me get into even my first game... that one made me understand what people really meant when they complained about 'playing a spreadsheet'

also played old legends like original MOO and Alpha Centauri

I totally agree with OP ... Civ is really more accessible than most others. It makes a complex game accessible, or so it seems to me

 

[Zaarin]

I was not talking about Endless Space (that's not Paradox, I don't think). I was thinking of the historical Paradox games like EU and HOI which would be more like civ in their premise.

No, Endless Space is a 4X game like Civ made by Amplitude Studios. My point was that the advantage Civ has over its fellow 4X games is marketing, as opposed to grand strategy games like Stellaris or Crusader Kings.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

No, Endless Space is a 4X game like Civ made by Amplitude Studios. My point was that the advantage Civ has over its fellow 4X games is marketing, as opposed to grand strategy games like Stellaris or Crusader Kings.

Marketing is part of it. But even if we compare apples to apples and compare civ to another 4X game like Amplitudes' Endless Legend, I think there is still a case to be made that civ has a lower learning curve that makes it more accessible. I've played both Endless Space and Endless Legend and they are good games but they are less accessible than civ IMO. For example, I got a quest in Endless Legend to establish a trade route (I think) and it was not at all obvious how to do that. But in civ, if I gave you a quest to establish a trade route, it would be very obvious what to do.

 

[Zaarin]

Marketing is part of it. But even if we compare apples to apples and compare civ to another 4X game like Amplitudes' Endless Legend, I think there is still a case to be made that civ has a lower learning curve that makes it more accessible. I've played both Endless Space and Endless Legend and they are good games but they are less accessible than civ IMO. For example, I got a quest in Endless Legend to establish a trade route (I think) and it was not at all obvious how to do that. But in civ, if I gave you a quest to establish a trade route, it would be very obvious what to do.

I didn't care for Endless Legend, personally, and I'm not sure why as I adored Endless Space and its sequel (and would argue that they're better games than Civ, which is another discussion). But I might be biased because Civ was far from my first 4X game (I think Birth of the Federation was my first--if you ever want a wonderful game with a steep learning curve... ), so I probably wasn't overly conscious of Civ's learning curve, being already familiar with the genre's conventions. (I did find transitioning from Civ5 to Civ6 had a learning curve, though--not because Civ6 is hard but because it messes with some of those genre assumptions--which is good!)

 

[MarigoldRan]

Now if only they could make the AI more immersive.